Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

[supermac9]

Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

I have been dealing with Capquest since January 2014 following their purchase of my account from Marbles - so far, all they have managed to dredge up is a blurred copy of my original application for a Sky (Beneficial) Card which is dated July 1996 (attached) - it doesn't comply with anything so I've held out ever since and have played monthly letter tennis with them saying I wont pay them anything. They keep putting my account on hold, so I suspect they know they are flogging a dead horse - after all this time, I cant see Marbles finding a perfect copy of my CCA document.

[strawberrybabe]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

If you enclose 1 pound as payment, how else to do it that you would not send a cheque? I mean, so that they do not see your signature...?

[seduraed]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

If you enclose 1 pound as payment, how else to do it that you would not send a cheque? I mean, so that they do not see your signature...?

postal order

[Mic]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

You could of course pay £10 and ask for a Data Access Request, which would include this file.
For more information go to the ICO who have template letters for you to use, or you could include something similar to the text below.

I am writing to request that you forward me a copy of all data held by your organization about me for my account. This should include, but not be limited to all transaction lists, agreements, notes made on my account and copies of letters relating to my account.

This request should include any data held for more than 6 years as under the Data Protection Act there is no time limit for information requested. If you do not hold data for a period longer than 6 years I also request confirmation of this in writing along with your methods used for disposal of such information to comply with the Data Protection Act stating the name and contact information of your registered Data Controller and Code Compliance Officer.

I don;t see the point in asking a company for partial data and given that if the company do not comply within the time frames allotted, the information commissioner can and does take action.

[Adrasteia]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

The point of asking for a request under the consumer credit act is that they have to provide certain defined info and failure to do that means that they can not take it to court. Not only that but many creditors do not provide the agreement on a subject access request

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

You could of course pay £10 and ask for a Data Access Request, which would include this file.
For more information go to the ICO who have template letters for you to use, or you could include something similar to the text below.

I don;t see the point in asking a company for partial data and given that if the company do not comply within the time frames allotted, the information commissioner can and does take action.

The point of asking for a request under the consumer credit act is that they have to provide certain defined info and failure to do that means that they can not take it to court.

This is probably a subject for another thread but to clarify, the two requests are substantially different, made under different legislation and certainly NOT mutually exclusive.

The CCA request is a request for a copy of your credit agreement made under ss.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act. They only have to provide you with a copy of the original or a reconstructed copy of the agreement, the T&Cs as varied and a statement of account. Non-compliance is a bar to enforcement while they are in breach, that means they can still take you to court but they would have to provide the document in order to succeed with their claim, although there have been exceptions but I won't go into them now. :mmph:

A CCA only applies to accounts regulated by the CCA, so excludes overdrafts, mobile contracts, utility bills, etc. and there is no duty to respond if the account is closed with no outstanding balance or if judgment has been obtained.

A SAR is a request under the Data Protection Act 1998 for all data held about you by a company. SARs can be sent for anything including a closed account or one subject to a judgment, a mobile contract, etc. as well as for many other purposes, i.e. you can send one to an ex-employer, your GP or the DWP. It's got nothing to do with the Consumer Credit Act and falls under the remit of the ICO instead.

You can't use lack of compliance with a SAR in your defence to a claim, nor is it a bar to enforcement. You can send both a SAR and a CCA request (if applicable) at the same time, although you'd usually send the SAR to the original creditor (the bank, mobile network, etc.) rather than the DCA while you'd send the CCA request to whoever is chasing you or taking you to court and they'd have to pass on the request to the original lender.

Not only that but many creditors do not provide the agreement on a subject access request

The agreement should be provided because it is personal data, it should have your name and address on it to start with. However, terms are not personal data and do not have to be provided.

[MIKE770]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

You could try for a copy CCA1974 with SAR request1 some banks etc will acknowledge (personal experience) but generally send copy of CCA1974 with £1.00 P.O. to be safe and sound as request outstanding then Unenforceable until complied with

[Mic]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

Thanks for the information, however the following could be incorrect, depending on how the terms have been written.

However, terms are not personal data and do not have to be provided.

Personal data is data where your name has been used in conjunction with any document. Your name is personal data, therefore if any terms and conditions which form part of any contract is linked to your name, then it is considered personal to you.

– data that identifies a person, even in a relatively benign or innocuous way – is personal data.

from the appeals court rulings with regards to Edem v IC & Financial Services Authority [2014] EWCA Civ 92

Sorry I am not meaning to derail this thread, only trying to help and I do understand that you are talking about this in relation to sections 77 - 79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA)
Every bit of knowledge is useful and I will add this to my growing library of links.

[mystery1]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

The point of asking for a request under the consumer credit act is that they have to provide certain defined info and failure to do that means that they can not take it to court. Not only that but many creditors do not provide the agreement on a subject access request

They can go to court but they should be unable to gain judgement (enforce)

M1

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

Thanks for the information, however the following could be incorrect, depending on how the terms have been written.

Personal data is data where your name has been used in conjunction with any document. Your name is personal data, therefore if any terms and conditions which form part of any contract is linked to your name, then it is considered personal to you.

Obviously the terms from inception which would form part of the agreement would have to be there but the varied terms which are meant to be supplied with a CCA request are usually just booklets. Thousands of copies are printed and sent out to account holders and they are not personal data so do not get sent with a SAR. These can also include PPI terms which are often in a separate booklet. The ICO publishes a detailed guide to personal data: https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organis...sonal-data.pdf

If a bank's response to a SAR seems to have missing data, you can follow the process of complaining to the bank and then take it to the ICO, however, none of this has much to do with enforcement of the debt. :mmph:

from the appeals court rulings with regards to Edem v IC & Financial Services Authority [2014] EWCA Civ 92

Sorry I am not meaning to derail this thread, only trying to help and I do understand that you are talking about this in relation to sections 77 - 79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA)
Every bit of knowledge is useful and I will add this to my growing library of links.

That's not a case relating to a money claim or enforcement of a debt which is what we were discussing in relation to CCA requests.

[Mic]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

They call it duty of disclosure Ministry of Justice Part 31 - Disclosure and inspection of documents.

If a company wishes to bring any case based upon documents, they have a duty to disclose upon request. Most don't ask for this and many companies try not to provide documents unless specifically requested, which can be done, even in court. A judge may or may not ask the company to provide these depending on the case. If the documents have been requested prior to any court case, the judges apparently, from what I have been told, take a dim view of companies that do not provide this information.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

They can go to court but they should be unable to gain judgement (enforce)

M1

Sadly this isn't always the case. https://paulatwatsonssolicitors.wordpress.com/

Error 1) If a bank or creditor cannot provide the original credit agreement then they cannot enforce the agreement in Court. Also if they don’t have the original then they cannot reconstitute the agreement.

This is incorrect. Even going back to Wilson v First County Trust (2003) UKHL 40, the Lords said that there must have been an agreement, signed by the debtor, however the Lords did not say that if the bank doesn’t have this agreement then they cannot enforce. There have been a series of judicial rulings which address this point.

HHJ Langan in Lloyds TSB vs Mitchell that the creditor did not have to produce the original signed agreement, he pointed out cases such as the Iron Mountain fire where thousands of credit agreements were burnt and pointed out that if the creditor lost his agreement because of the fire, then it would produce an absurd result that would have left the creditors unable to enforce compliant and enforceable credit agreements. That was never the intention of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

[mystery1]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

Sadly this isn't always the case. https://paulatwatsonssolicitors.wordpress.com/

I never said they needed to comply with all that though. Just that which is described in Carey

M1

[Mic]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

Obviously the terms from inception which would form part of the agreement would have to be there but the varied terms which are meant to be supplied with a CCA request are usually just booklets. Thousands of copies are printed and sent out to account holders and they are not personal data so do not get sent with a SAR. These can also include PPI terms which are often in a separate booklet. The ICO publishes a detailed guide to personal data:.

That link shows a pdf which is now out of date. As far as Edem is concerned, it is all about data protection and how the law applies, so is relevant, particularly when a company will try to use Durant to stop you getting information that is personal to you.

As far as general information is concerned, you don't need a data access request, as they can and do throw bundles of those at you to try to obfuscate matters. These general terms and conditions however do have clauses within them and a specific contract, personal to you, should tell you which of these clauses apply in your particular case.

If a bank's response to a SAR seems to have missing data, you can follow the process of complaining to the bank and then take it to the ICO, however, none of this has much to do with enforcement of the debt. :mmph:

That's not a case relating to a money claim or enforcement of a debt which is what we were discussing in relation to CCA requests.

No the first post in this section was about obtaining your credit information file under sections 77 - 79 of the CCA.

This is a basic request for a copy of your regulated consumer credit agreement which you are entitled to under sections 77 - 79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA)

These sections cover lending such as;
Fixed sum Credit (S77): Loans
Variable Sum Credit (S78): Credit Cards, Catalogues
Hire Purchase (S79): HP agreements

nb. Utilities, Telecoms, Broadband, TV, Rentals, Overdrafts and Banking Accounts are NOT covered by the CCA.

.

I merely suggested that a SAR may be just as appropriate, but that has been answered.

[Adrasteia]

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 Basic Request for Original Copy of Agreement

The first post in this thread is from 2007 which is quite a while ago.