PRA full and final settlement advice

[AFC]

Hi, I've read with interest some of the posts on here and find them very helpful. However, I can't find anything in the forum specific to my problem. I have an outstanding debt with PRA that started life as a defaulted MBNA card from 2009, initial agreement started in 2004ish....
I have been paying it back through Moneysolve. I have been gifted some money and called PRA yesterday to offer a full and final settlement - I received a call from them today advising me that my offer had been declined. As most of the debt belongs to my ex partner, although in my name I requested a copy of the original agreement and a complete statement of account - in the hope I can get my ex to cough up for some of her wild spending. I was told by the operator that they do not have any paperwork relating to the debt and are unable to retrieve it from the original lender. My question is, have I inadvertently opened a can of worms in relation to the enforcement of this debt, an d can I use this to strengthen my case for a full and final settlement?
Regards
AFC

[nemesis45]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

Good morning,

Did you make a formal request for the agreement (CCA Request under the provisions of s 77/78/79 of CCA 1974 together with the required £1.00 Statutory Fee?

nem

[Diana M]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

MBNA card from 2009, initial agreement started in 2004ish....

. . . . I was told by the operator that they do not have any paperwork relating to the debt and are unable to retrieve it from the original lender.

My question is, have I inadvertently opened a can of worms in relation to the enforcement of this debt

My answer to your question is making an offer to settle can send out the signal that you've got access to funds which in turn can make PRA perceive the debt to be now collectable. They can be very litigious.

So if you haven't already sent a formal s.77-79 CCA Request including the £1 statutory fee then do that asap. This forum has a link to a template letter for that here > http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...=7670#post7670

If you've already sent one to a previous owner of the debt then there is no need to send another if you've retained the correspondence in relation to that one.

From what you say you were told on the phone that they didn't have the credit agreement in their possession but you need that in writing. PRA regularly issue claims without having the documents.

Next send a Subject Access Request to MBNA since this will give you the full history of the account which according to you was opened in 2004 so it may have 'issues' in regards to enforceability.

Who owned this debt before PRA? I'm guessing it was Aktiv Kapital, but does the name Experto Credite or Varde mean anything to you? If so then you may have inadvertently opened up a can of worms which will do them harm, not you

Di

[Diana M]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

I requested a copy of the original agreement and a complete statement of account - in the hope I can get my ex to cough up for some of her wild spending. I was told by the operator that they do not have any paperwork relating to the debt and are unable to retrieve it from the original lender.

Did the operator say why they were unable to retrieve the credit agreement from MBNA?

What exactly did they say? Was it that they had requested it but were told it was not available or did they say that PRA don't have access to MBNA data/archives even if they (MBNA) did have the documents? Or was there another reason given?

I have a reason for asking this question.

Di

[AFC]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

Hello and thanks for the responses.
I haven't sent any formal requests for information to either MBNA nor PRA.
I simply phoned PRA as instructed by my DMC to offer a reduced settlement figure. My other creditors have all accepted and have put it in writing that the account will be closed up on payment of the agreed amount.
My offer which equates to 25% was declined by way of return phone call after being submitted to 'higher management' (their words not mine).
The operator indicated that they would settle for 80%, I replied that this is not possible and I would continue with my DMP. I then questioned the operator as to whether she could supply me with any paperwork relating to my account - to which she replied 'hold the line while I make some checks' short pause..... she then stated that she was unable to ascertain any paperwork either from their files nor the original lender. I genuinely wanted copy statements or something to show transactions to get my ex to at least acknowledge some of the debt, I then stumbled across this forum that lead me to think that perhaps PRA are not acting wholly within their rights.
This debt has been in the hands of expert credite and varde, however my DMC has always dealt with it.
I have obtained some money from a friend in order to clear these debts as my DMC are becoming pushy claiming my creditors are on their case, sometimes they feel more harassing than the DCA's!!!
Hopefully I've covered everything but feel free to ask more questions - thanks again for the support 👍

[Diana M]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

I then questioned the operator as to whether she could supply me with any paperwork relating to my account - to which she replied 'hold the line while I make some checks' short pause..... she then stated that she was unable to ascertain any paperwork either from their files nor the original lender.

Ah ha! I'm glad I asked that question.

So what you do now is send a formal s.77-79 CCA Request to PRA by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery including the £1 statutory fee. If they cannot comply with your request (and early indications are that they can't) then the debt becomes unenforceable in court unless or until they do.

Make a note of the date and time of that phone call you had with PRA. Did you get the name of the person you spoke to? If things get ugly you may wish to get a copy of the recording

My advice is to stay off the phone from now on.

How much is this debt as that would give a clue as to whether they may wish to pursue it to the bitter end?

Di

[Diana M]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

I then stumbled across this forum that lead me to think that perhaps PRA are not acting wholly within their rights.

This debt has been in the hands of expert credite and varde

I'm glad I asked that question too.

Even though your DMP provider has been handling the payment side of things, have you kept any paperwork of your own?

The Varde/Experto Credite connection (or maybe disconnection ) is of interest to me. I can't say why at the moment, but there is a good reason.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

I simply phoned PRA as instructed by my DMC to offer a reduced settlement figure. My other creditors have all accepted and have put it in writing that the account will be closed up on payment of the agreed amount.

It's not for me to comment on whether you've been getting 'best advice' from your DMP provider, but before they advise you how to spend your or your friend's (not their) money I think you'd be wise to establish your legal positon with this debt and maybe some of the others if they're from the same era.

I hope I'm not too late to say the latter since you've been encouraged/pressured (bullied?) into making offers to pay debts by your DMP people.

I have obtained some money from a friend in order to clear these debts as my DMC are becoming pushy claiming my creditors are on their case, sometimes they feel more harassing than the DCA's!!!

Why not explore all your options first.

Di

[AFC]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

The original debt was circa £11500, it's now £9900 courtesy of my payments through DMP over the last 8 years.
I may have some paperwork relating to expertise credite but can not be sure - ironically their offices were a 5 minute drive from my house.
With regards to other paperwork - I have very little as my DMC seem to receive everything.

[Diana M]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

The original debt was circa £11500, it's now £9900 courtesy of my payments through DMP over the last 8 years.
I may have some paperwork relating to expertise credite but can not be sure - ironically their offices were a 5 minute drive from my house.
With regards to other paperwork - I have very little as my DMC seem to receive everything.

In which case I think you should send three Subject Access Requests as follows:

1. MBNA to get the full history of this particular debt (I'll explain why later).

2. Your DMP provider to get the full history of their dealings with all of your creditors in the plan which will include what they have and haven't said/sent/received from PRA and Experto Credite who went into voluntary liquidation just before last Christmas > https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history

3. PRA to see what they've been doing with your account.

In some ways it may not be all bad that PRA turned down your offer

Di

[Diana M]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

I have been paying it back through Moneysolve.

I've had a quick look at MoneySolve's Client Care Booklet (52 pages). They charge you for their services. After eight years you must have paid them a small fortune according to Clause 9.

Do they charge you anything if they negotiate a Full & Final settlement with a creditor or take a fee/percentage if you to settle a debt direct with the owner of that debt (as encouraged by them)?

http://www.moneysolve.co.uk/DMP-Client-Care-Booklet.pdf

Di

[AFC]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

Wow - seems this can of worms is well and truly open!
Moneysolve told me that they would charge a fee for any negotiation they did on my behalf hence why I made the calls myself. I am trained in mediation and negotiation so felt I could handle the calls adequately.
I haven't paid any of the agreed amounts to others as yet - I said it would take up to 30 days for the money to be available.
should I now be considering sending all of my creditors these requests?
(Lowell, Nationwide credit card, PRA, Capital one, Apex, idem)
Thanks

AFC

[Diana M]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

should I now be considering sending all of my creditors these requests?
(Lowell, Nationwide credit card, PRA, Capital one, Apex, idem)

Absolutely yes!

Send a CCA Request to each of them pronto.

If they can't comply then in the very least you will be in a better negotiating position.

Debt purchasers typically pay 10% (max) of the book value of the debt so allowing them to make a profit out of consumers' misfortune (we didn't cause the Credit Crunch the banks/lenders did) makes my blood boil.

Di

[AFC]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

Thank you so much for your time today - I will send the letters early part of the week.
I also have some questions regarding idem, all be it quite different circumstances. One step at a time though so I shall come back to that.
Once again thank you for your help.
Regards
AFC

[Diana M]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

I also have some questions regarding idem, all be it quite different circumstances. One step at a time though so I shall come back to that.

That's fine by me. I like questions

Di