**DISCONTINUED** Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

[Diana M]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

Crumbs!

I get the reason for a bland CCA request - For an overdraft it may not be applicable but Howard Cohen probably don't know it was an overdraft, so they will hold any intention to lodge court claim while spending time digging around for info - all the while the clock is ticking.

That's the general idea

It may or may not work since your up against the clock time wise.

There are various 'schools of thought' as to when and when not a debt is SB. The only thing I will say is that no two situations are the same. And quite frankly only a judge can rule on that, and preferably a High Court ruling so that lower courts (i.e. County Court) will have to sit up and take notice. That's not happened yet. I wonder why . . .

Di

[Guest]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

I get the reason for a bland CCA request - For an overdraft it may not be applicable but Howard Cohen probably don't know it was an overdraft, so they will hold any intention to lodge court claim while spending time digging around for info - all the while the clock is ticking.

And, I thought the SB date only started from the default date on the credit file. I didn't realise it started from the date of last payment - which would be quite a while EARLIER than 2010.

Is SB definitely 6 years from last payment or acknowledgment? I had always considered it 6 years from whatever the default date was??

Neither. The default date is not when it starts but it gives you an indication. The 6 years are from the cause of action which is not last payment. For an overdraft, the law says the following:

Where a demand in writing for repayment of the debt under a contract of loan to which this section applies is made by or on behalf of the creditor (or, where there are joint creditors, by or on behalf of any one of them) section 5 of this Act shall thereupon apply as if the cause of action to recover the debt had accrued on the date on which the demand was made.

That was why I said above that the time started when they sent you a letter demanding full payment of the overdrawn amount. That would have been after you last paid into the account but before they recorded the default on the credit report.

The CCA request will not protect you for an overdraft.

[Guest]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

There are various 'schools of thought' as to when and when not a debt is SB. The only thing I will say is that no two situations are the same. And quite frankly only a judge can rule on that, and preferably a High Court ruling so that lower courts (i.e. County Court) will have to sit up and take notice. That's not happened yet. I wonder why . . .

Not for overdrafts, as I posted above, the cause of action is very clear - when the bank sends a letter demanding repayment of the overdraft. That happens because there are no set repayment dates for overdrafts.

I wouldn't dream of revealing my firm's 'trade secrets' in cyberspace

I think there was a confusion here, I didn't ask you to reveal any trade secrets. The comment was that, if the debt is statute barred, that should be enough, and there is not a bigger obstacle than that.

[Diana M]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

if the debt is statute barred, that should be enough, and there is not a bigger obstacle than that.

I couldn't agree with you more.

But if the debt isn't Statute Barred then I would say (with reason and experience of handling claims by them) that the Creditor may have other legal obstacles to overcome should they wish to pursue this debt in court.

Di

[somewhereovertherainbow]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

Thank you Estrella,

I'm now trying to recall the sequence of events. Firstly, I stopped making payments and stopped using the account. They sent chaser letters but I never acknowledged nor made any payments. Whether they put a default on BEFORE or AFTER their final demand for payment I'm not sure. I cant remember.

The debt then bounced to MKDP (with their letters coming) then to another solicitor type company (with their letters) then to Robinson Way (and their letters) then finally to Howard Cohen (and their letters).

Is there a chance the Credit report default date is EARLIER then the SB date ?? in other words they defaulted me before the 'cause of action' date, so the SB date may bit later the the default date of 30/12/2016?

I was beginning to think that the default date on the CRA report would be the LATEST possible date they could do anything.

I saw someone refer to a 'prove it' letter - should I use that instead of the CCA letter?

[Guest]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

Thank you Estrella,

I'm now trying to recall the sequence of events. Firstly, I stopped making payments and stopped using the account. They sent chaser letters but I never acknowledged nor made any payments. Whether they put a default on BEFORE or AFTER their final demand for payment I'm not sure. I cant remember.

The debt then bounced to MKDP (with their letters coming) then to another solicitor type company (with their letters) then to Robinson Way (and their letters) then finally to Howard Cohen (and their letters).

Is there a chance the Credit report default date is EARLIER then the SB date ?? in other words they defaulted me before the 'cause of action' date, so the SB date may bit later the the default date of 30/12/2016?

No, because they would only default the account once they have demanded full repayment. Because overdrafts have no set payment dates, the bank will have been waiting to see if you were going to pay in money into the account, in which case the account would remain live and no default would be recorded. Once they decided they'd had enough of waiting, they sent you the demand and will have probably waited a few weeks to see if you paid before recording the default.

I was beginning to think that the default date on the CRA report would be the LATEST possible date they could do anything.

In a way you are right to see it like that, it isn't really the cause of action from a legal perspective but it shows you that the cause of action would have already taken place before that date.

I saw someone refer to a 'prove it' letter - should I use that instead of the CCA letter?

The prove it letter is the one people send when they are contacted out of the blue. If they have sent you a letter before claim, the correct response would be to ask them for the documents they would be relying on for their claim, like a copy of the original agreement (not a CCA but a current account agreement), statement of account, proof of assignment and the final demand. After all these years, they probably can't find most of them. When I have sent data requests to the banks, they always say they have nothing older than 6 years.

[somewhereovertherainbow]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

Thx. you're a star - as are you all that responded.

So. I'm back to it being SB so I will look for a SB template letter and send that off. I guess there is no harm in sending it now (to Howard Cohen) rather than waiting for an actual court claim?

I might be able to sleep tonite.....

[Guest]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

Thx. you're a star - as are you all that responded.

So. I'm back to it being SB so I will look for a SB template letter and send that off. I guess there is no harm in sending it now (to Howard Cohen) rather than waiting for an actual court claim?

I might be able to sleep tonite.....

Or you could reply as I said above, asking them for the documents, that should keep them busy while the clock ticks... tick tock...

[somewhereovertherainbow]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

Tickety boo.

I'll let you what happens.

[Diana M]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

So. I'm back to it being SB so I will look for a SB template letter and send that off. I guess there is no harm in sending it now (to Howard Cohen) rather than waiting for an actual court claim

Who says this debt is definitely SB?

Did a lawyer tell you that once they'd seen all the relevant paperwork? No one else can say that for sure.

Anything/Everything else will be pure speculation based on what you've posted on the internet without any documents to support it.

Consider whether a letter to Howard Cohen stating that this debt is SB may trigger an instant claim to beat the SB clock. And what if it isn't?

A forum does what it says on the tin (in Roman times). It's a meeting place where ideas are exchanged. Some will be based on 'informed advice' and some won't be.

Only you can make a choice on what would be the correct way forward once you've considered all your options and the consequences of choosing any of them.

Di

[somewhereovertherainbow]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

OK. I'll do a CCA letter - buys time and doesn't acknowledge.

thx

[Diana M]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

If they have sent you a letter before claim, the correct response would be to ask them for the documents they would be relying on for their claim, like a copy of the original agreement (not a CCA but a current account agreement), statement of account, proof of assignment and the final demand.

If the OP asks for the "final demand" that would be revealing the fact that this debt was an overdraft so not regulated by s.77-79 CCA.

Surely the object of the exercise is to 'ask not tell' especially if the creditor has no idea what debt they are chasing at the moment.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

they would only default the account once they have demanded full repayment. Because overdrafts have no set payment dates, the bank will have been waiting to see if you were going to pay in money into the account, in which case the account would remain live and no default would be recorded. Once they decided they'd had enough of waiting, they sent you the demand and will have probably waited a few weeks to see if you paid before recording the default.

In a way you are right to see it like that, it isn't really the cause of action from a legal perspective but it shows you that the cause of action would have already taken place before that date.

At the moment it's not known when the Final Demand was made. All that's known so far is that a default was registered on the OP's CRA files as 30th December 2010.

If the Final Demand was sent before that date it would need to have been sent more than two months prior to the account being defaulted in order to presume the debt is definitely SB (based on the way you are seeing this and the fact that it is only October).

Di

[somewhereovertherainbow]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

cc claim.jpgHi,

Sooo, I have now received a court claim - copy attached. It DOES state it is for an Overdraft.

They have added interest, so total of claim is £10,133.37.

It mentions the date 30/12/2010 which is the default date on the credit file.

As mentioned earlier in the post, I had not made any payments into the account for at LEAST 6 months before 30/12/2010.

I will acknowledge the claim and tick 'defend'.

My post didn't mention CPR letters before but now I have an actual claim, and it states Overdraft, should I send a CPR request? (and what exactly does CPR do?)

Will that give clarification of what date the 6 year 'clock' started ticking? (From Diana M above, I believe I need the Final Demand letter to have been made BEFORE 01/Nov/2010 to be statute Barred?(court claim date 02/Nov/2016))

**I'm new to attaching stuff so please let me know if you can't see or open attachment.

Many thanks for your help.

[Diana M]

Re: Howard Cohen Pending Legal Action Lloyds Bank overdraft

Sooo, I have now received a court claim - copy attached. It DOES state it is for an Overdraft.

Okay, no surprises there

I recall that this account is a joint account but only one "Defendant" has been named on the claim form (have I got that right?).

Never mind what the POC say about account opening dates, default dates, assignment dates etc. Some of this will be guesswork or in the very least inaccurate. Just because the Claimant says something that doesn't mean it's true. In fact the POC say very little perhaps because the Claimant has very little to go on.

Send a Subject Access Request to Lloyds right away to get the full history of this account. The information which you get back will not necessarily be available to the Claimant. If they start to reconstitute paperwork you'll soon know if it's 'honest and accurate'. It may also clarify the Statute Barred issue once and for all.

Di