CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

[MIKE770]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

2 notifications in one envelope - is allowed, they can sell whenever they like regardless, suggest you read other like threads and get up to date on the subject as you will no doubt need to/ a large amount they will want

without a cca then they are losers but be careful

[MIKE770]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

could send copy of Natwest letter to crackpots , no cca

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Thanks Mike,

But by Natwest's own admission they cannot pursue this through the courts.

sidley

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

[MENTION=3599]MIKE770[/MENTION].

Yes I thought about sending a copy of the letter to Cabots. But before I did that I just wanted to check here first that that was a wise thing to do!

sidley

[MIKE770]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Thanks Mike,

But by Natwest's own admission they cannot pursue this through the courts.

sidley

they are not chasing you a debt buyer is who owned the alledged debt

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@MIKE770.

Yes I thought about sending a copy of the letter to Cabots. But before I did that I just wanted to check here first that that was a wise thing to do!

sidley

well it may stop them in their tracks or they may still try their hand to see who breaks first, hoping you get tired of their antics, most cases are who falls 1st it is all a game to them, you are only one of thousands a weeks they send threatograms etc out to, many will crumble 1st fence.

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1980 was a Access account?

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Thanks Mike

I do not intend to crumble. I believe their case is so weak.

sidley

[warwick65]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Hi Sidley

I gave you my opinion elsewhere

two options
1) Send a fresh CCA request to cabot

2) ( my preferred option) Write to cabot telling them that there is an unresolved CCA request with the original creditor which would render any such account unenforceable. As such you suggest they close the account


I noticed you are still paying this card, not sure what the balance is but have you ever thought about stopping payments

I also note that someone somewhere else has told you that no signed agreement means it is completely unenforecable , while that is often tru it is not an absolute. i am afraid that person is a very much a no shades of grey person , however sadly life is full of shades of grey ( more than 50 for those readers of mummy porn ;-) )

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Thanks Warwick and Mike,

I'll send them a fresh CCA request and wait for them to find out that there isn't one.

Whilst it has been 6 yrs without a squeak from Natwest, I thought it best to carry on paying the token amount. Now it has changed hands I might think about stopping payments.

Thanks again

sidley

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Hi All,

Firstly, thanks for all your help.

I have been chasing up the CCA with Cabot and Natwest. No news from Cabot apart from letters encouraging me to phone them to discuss a discount.

However, today received this letter from Natwest.

So, a) do I stop paying the £10 p.m. token payment? - currently going to Natwest who then forward it to Cabot.

b) What can Cabot do other than keep on asking me to contact them?

I did also ask them for the DN. I know this is not part of the CCA request but I thought it wouldn't hurt. No mention of it in their letter.

Thanks again.

sidley

[warwick65]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Hi Sidley

I can not open the attachment , maybe there is a problem.

Can I ask why you have been chasing them regarding the CCA request- once it is sent and received it becomes their problem

I sent a CCA request to Cabot for two RBS cards over a year ago and they did not reply- I have not chased them up, just let it be. They know with no reponse they can not enforce - but they could issue a claim

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I have just read it- although Cabot can bring up a recon CCA if they want you can then argue you did not sign any agreement with the PTs in it.

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Thanks for being so quick Warick.

I've attached a jpeg this time, see if that works.

Sidley

[MIKE770]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Hi Sidley

I can not open the attachment , maybe there is a problem.

Can I ask why you have been chasing them regarding the CCA request- once it is sent and received it becomes their problem

I sent a CCA request to Cabot for two RBS cards over a year ago and they did not reply- I have not chased them up, just let it be. They know with no reponse they can not enforce - but they could issue a claim

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I have just read it- although Cabot can bring up a recon CCA if they want you can then argue you did not sign any agreement with the PTs in it.

Natwest admitting mislaid file and admit not able to fulfil request and in the circumstances sold to Cabot

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

@ warwick,

Is issuing a claim the start of enforcement? I've read other threads on this site and I believe that the law as interpreted by the Judges say that issuing a claim is not the same as enforcement (maybe wrong here). But what would be the point of issuing a claim if it cannot go any further?

sidley

[charitynjw]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

1. (5) In the judgment of McGuffick -v- The Royal Bank of Scotland plc [2009] EWHC 2386 (Comm) Flaux J held in a case under section 77 of the CCA that passing details of a debt to a credit reference agency and related activities do not constitute enforcement under the CCA. He also held that steps taken with a view to enforcement, including demanding payment from a claimant, issuing a default notice, threatening legal action and the actual bringing of proceedings, are not themselves 'enforcement' under the CCA. On the other hand he confirmed that the actions listed under sections 76(1) and 87(1) of the CCA did amount to enforcement notwithstanding that some of the actions 'less obviously' amounted to enforcement. These actions are demanding earlier payment, recovering possession of goods or land, treating any right conferred on the debtor by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred, enforcing any security and terminating the agreement.
   
2. (6) While Flaux J agreed with the decision of HHJ Simon Brown QC (sitting as a Deputy High Court Judge) in Tesco Personal Finance v Rankine [2009] C.C.L.R. 3 that commencing proceedings was not enforcement, but a step taken with a view to enforcement, both he and HHJ Simon Brown appear to have been drawing a distinction between commencing proceedings and entering judgment in those proceedings.
   
3. (7) This guidance deals only with the question of whether an agreement is unenforceable in relation to sections 77, 78 and 79 of the CCA. A lender's rights to enforce an agreement may be restricted for a variety of reasons, by the Act, by or under the CCAand by virtue of the general law.
   
4. (8) However, where a firm is aware that an agreement is unenforceable because of non-compliance with an information request under section 77, 78 or 79 of the CCA, a firmshould make it clear when communicating to a customer about a debt that the debt is in fact unenforceable. Failure to do so, in that case, would in the FCA's view unfairly mislead the customer by omission. Any communication that implies expressly or otherwise that a debt is enforceable when it is known that it is not, would be misleading. One way to avoid this would be for the firm to explain to the customer the full meaning of 'unenforceable'.

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/hand.../?view=chapter

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Thanks Charity,

but why "..bringing of proceedings.." if it can go no further? Why start something - esp. when court claims costs money - when you know that it can't go any further?


thanks

sidley