Lowell County Court claim crisis

[Diana M]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

[QUOTE=nemesis45;668335]

Surely if one acknowledges the debt at this stage in correspondence with the claimant or their solicitors it would be fatal to the defence IF the debt is not statute barred??

That is precisely why I'm personally against sending any bespoke letters prior to filing a Defence in case you shoot yourself in the foot by mistake.

There's also the danger that any letter you send to the Claimant's solicitor (other than a CCA or CPR request template) could be sent to the court by them as your Defence (it has been known to happen) .

Why tell them anything before filing a Defence?

I guess there's always the hope that they'll immediately Discontinue, but they're unlikely to do that without checking the facts first to see if you're bluffing. Also if the Claimant discontinues after you file your Defence you can argue for costs even in the Small Claims Court

My earlier point about SB was simply that once a claim has been issued the SB stops ticking. I wasn't advocating that someone should set out to acknowledge the debt - my suggestion was to keep schtum.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

surprise might be that the claimant turns up in court with " evidence " that you have had no chance to challenge.

If a Claimant turns up in court with evidence that was not included in their WS and Exhibits then it should be inadmissible.

That's one reason why the cut-off point for filing WS/evidence is usually 14 days before the Trial so that both parties have time to read and digest it in order to prepare a challenge of the content at the hearing - or even file a supplementary WS in some circumstances .

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

I'm not sure what I want to do yet

Have you sent a SAR to establish when the last payment made was recorded?

(My apologies for not having read back through your thread to know the answer )

Di

[Madrigal]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

No, just a CPR and a CCA. Should I send a SAR?

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

[QUOTE=Diana M;668467]

That is precisely why I'm personally against sending any bespoke letters prior to filing a Defence in case you shoot yourself in the foot by mistake.

There's also the danger that any letter you send to the Claimant's solicitor (other than a CCA or CPR request template) could be sent to the court by them as your Defence (it has been known to happen) .

Why tell them anything before filing a Defence?

I guess there's always the hope that they'll immediately Discontinue, but they're unlikely to do that without checking the facts first to see if you're bluffing. Also if the Claimant discontinues after you file your Defence you can argue for costs even in the Small Claims Court

My earlier point about SB was simply that once a claim has been issued the SB stops ticking. I wasn't advocating that someone should set out to acknowledge the debt - my suggestion was to keep schtum.

Di

Simple answers.

The approach works and if a letter properly written no liability is admitted and a defendant is relieved from the stress and anxiety of a court heating.

[Madrigal]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

This arrived today. So Lowell haven't even seen these documents! I don't understand how the Deed of Assignment can be confidential, from everything I've read and had explained to me here I assume that it's a standard request?

This bit: 'If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.'

So they have to show the Deed of Assignment to the court to prove I owe the money to them, and if they show it to the court they have to show it to me. If they won't do that, how do they have a case? Or am I just not understanding something?

Edit: I just realised I was looking at the CCA, not the CPR 31. But still, this bit: 'I, as Defendant, am entitled to see the documents on which the Claimant relies and which you will have to produce at trial. Disclosure at this stage will enable me to fully plead my case and further the Overriding Objective. '

[MIKE770]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

Deed of assignment is confidential commercial information between two parties, hence you are not entitled to see it - you can request Notice of Assignment Only!

[Madrigal]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

All it said in the letter I copied and sent was 'Assignment'. I didn't realise there was a difference! Now I'm wondering whether they won't send me the Notice because they could say they assumed I wanted the Deed. Does the CPR 31 cover everything they have to show the court?

[MIKE770]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

Cpr request should ask for documents which are =mentioned in the N1 court form only initially

[Madrigal]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

The particulars of claim stated on the court form include:

'The Agreement was later assigned to the Claimant on (date) and notice given to the Defendant'.

So they must realise that was what I'm asking for.

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

This arrived today. So Lowell haven't even seen these documents! I don't understand how the Deed of Assignment can be confidential, from everything I've read and had explained to me here I assume that it's a standard request?

This bit: 'If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.'

So they have to show the Deed of Assignment to the court to prove I owe the money to them, and if they show it to the court they have to show it to me. If they won't do that, how do they have a case? Or am I just not understanding something?

Edit: I just realised I was looking at the CCA, not the CPR 31. But still, this bit: 'I, as Defendant, am entitled to see the documents on which the Claimant relies and which you will have to produce at trial. Disclosure at this stage will enable me to fully plead my case and further the Overriding Objective. '

Hi,

The Deed of Assignment is the commercially sensitive contract between the creditor and debt purchaser and is deemed confidential .

A judge could order disclosure but the deed would be very heavily redacted. What is more important is the Notice of Assignment informing you that the debt has been sold and to whom as
the deed would heavily redacted anyway.

Site of the DOA will not benefit your defence.

The claimant does not have to disclose the deed unless ordered so to do.

Your CCA request entitles you to a copy of the agreement and a current statement of the account.

Your CPR 31.14 request is for the inspection of the documents specifically mentioned in the Particulars of Claim.
NOA's ca be sent by the creditor and /or the debt purchaser.


There is no mention of the deed of assignment in the particulars of the claim.?

nem

[Madrigal]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

Not specifically, but I just thought as it said 'The Agreement was later assigned to the Claimant on (date) and notice given to the Defendant', I was entitled to see the notice they supposedly sent to tell me that. In the sample letter I got from here it said:
for EXAMPLE
1. Agreement / Contract
2. Default Notice
3. Assignment
4. Formal Demand
So I assumed that Assignment was something I needed to ask for!

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

Not specifically, but I just thought as it said 'The Agreement was later assigned to the Claimant on (date) and notice given to the Defendant', I was entitled to see the notice they supposedly sent to tell me that. In the sample letter I got from here it said:
for EXAMPLE
1. Agreement / Contract
2. Default Notice
3. Assignment
4. Formal Demand
So I assumed that Assignment was something I needed to ask for!

You ask for the notice of assignment of the debt to the debt purchaser, the way debts are sold in accord with the Law of Property Act 1925 there have only been a very ,very small number
of instances of problems concerning assignment.

nem

[Madrigal]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

Oh, ok. Damn, I thought it was something I was entitled to that they couldn't produce. I got all excited there for a minute!

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell County Court claim crisis

Oh, ok. Damn, I thought it was something I was entitled to that they couldn't produce. I got all excited there for a minute!

Lord Denning then Master The Rolls decided that consumers should be able to view t a deed of assignment but for practical purposes it's unworkable given that debts are not individually sold
but are part of a portfolio often with a face value of many hundreds of thousands of pounds picking one debt out is quite a task.

nem