Dunseman

[Dunseman]

Hello
I am a LegalBeagle virgin...so sorry if I don't know my way around.
Here's my problem/question
I paid £2000+by bank transfer for a hot tub in January
I had to arrange for their delivery company to deliver it, and this took time
However, last week I began to think they were stalling...they said the original tub I had bought was now sold..but they had another of a different colour and it would be delivered by their carriers next week
I had the carrier's tel. number so I phoned and they said no..it couldn't be delivered that week
Then I got an email to say the company was bankrupt.
What is the law here. If I have paid outright for the tub...but it has yet to be delivered...is it my property..or is it an "asset" for the bankrupt company?
( By the way...the Carrier's company now want me now to buy the tub ( it must be in their possession) at the full price from them.)

Thanks for any advice

[des8]

Re: Dunseman

Hi and welcome

Which company has gone bankrupt: the supplier or the carrier?
Who advised you the company was bankrupt, and have you checked if it is true?
Was this bought online? in which case can you give a link to the suppliers terms and conditions.

If the tub has left the (now bankrupt) supplier,it certainly doesn't belong to the carrier.
It may or may not be yours.
That will depend on your contract with the supplier.

[charitynjw]

Re: Dunseman

Hi and welcome

Which company has gone bankrupt: the supplier or the carrier?
Who advised you the company was bankrupt, and have you checked if it is true?
Was this bought online? in which case can you give a link to the suppliers terms and conditions.

If the tub has left the (now bankrupt) supplier,it certainly doesn't belong to the carrier.
It may or may not be yours.
That will depend on your contract with the supplier.

Hi des
Would this be privity of contract?

[des8]

Re: Dunseman

Probably (never be dogmatic!)
In the absence of full knowledge I assume there are two contracts.
One between supplier and OP governing the purchase of the hot tub
The other between supplier and carrier to deliver said goods.

At the moment we don't know to whom the goods belong 'cos we don't know when ownership passes. At time of purchase, at time of collection by courier or at time of delivery to OP?
If it was at time of purchase or collection the OP can sue for delivery of goods ie performance of a contract made between two parties for the benefit of a third party
If it was a time of delivery the goods aren't yet his and belong to supplier/liquidator and it would be for them to sue.

Probably the problem here is that the courier (who will be carrying goods for supplier on a regular basis) is owed money by the now bankrupt supplier, and is hoping to recover some of his potential losses from anyone awaiting a delivery of their hot tub.

[Dunseman]

Re: Dunseman

Hi and welcome

Which company has gone bankrupt: the supplier or the carrier?
Who advised you the company was bankrupt, and have you checked if it is true?
Was this bought online? in which case can you give a link to the suppliers terms and conditions.

If the tub has left the (now bankrupt) supplier,it certainly doesn't belong to the carrier.
It may or may not be yours.
That will depend on your contract with the supplier.

The company is Danz Spas
Unit 4 Palm Court Nottingham NG 7HU

I was advised by email from "Danz Spa Customer Support"
Well..I phoned the company..I read their conditions online and spoke to sales agent at their tel. number

Yesterday I got a phone call from the carriers who say they have 'my' hot tub..and want me to pay the full price again to deliver out to me

[Kati]

Re: Dunseman

http://www.danz.co.uk

Pressing "more information" here shows:

FUTURE OF DANZ SPAS


Unfortunately, Danz Spas have today (11th May 2016) taken the difficult decision to cease trading after 10 years in the hot tub business.
Towards the end of last year we had a number of difficulties and realised things were not going as well as we had hoped. We decided to restructure our business: we let go 60% of our workforce, and brought on board an investor. We thought we were on the right track.
Recently, things have a taken a turn for the worst and unfortunately, our business is no longer sustainable. Legally, we must now cease trading and are in the process of appointing a liquidator.

Throughout these 10 years we have met some incredible people; we tried to be a business with a difference. We donated a portion of our projects to charitable causes such as building classrooms in Northern Ghana. We regularly supported organisation like Young Enterprise and Model Behaviour to help inspire school children from low aspiration backgrounds. Sadly, this journey has come to an end.


What happens next:

Contact with Danz
Please note that until a liquidator has taken over, there will virtually no telephone/email support as our workforce has been made redundant. We expect to announce details of a liquidator at some point over the next 14 days.

If you have an unfulfilled order
You should will have received an email from us yesterday. If your order was paid for by Credit Card, Debit Card, or by PayPal, our recommendation is that you contact your card issuer who will likely issue a refund.
If your order was paid for by Bank Transfer, you will need to lodge a request for a refund with our liquidator. Once a liquidator has been appointed, details will be provided on our website and in an email if this applies to you.
Some orders may be still be fulfilled depending on the stock we have available.

After Sales Support
Unfortunately, as the business has ceased trading, it no longer has any employees that will be able to assist directly with after sale support. If you have an existing hot tub, your warranty was with Danz Spas. As the business has now ceased trading, sadly, this warranty is no longer valid.
If you have one of our newer Balboa models, a warranty may be available on the Balboa branded parts through Balboa.
If you are currently awaiting a spare part, if the stock is available, this will be sent out shortly.
In the longer term, it is our intention to launch a non-for-profit website (www.danz-support.co.uk) to provide a limited degree of support to older customers. We intend to include details on the parts your hot tub uses, where these parts can be purchased, common issues, and limited email support. It will take us 2-4 weeks to launch this website. We will do what we can to help.


- See more at: http://www.danz.co.uk/future-of-danz....YfEyLoiE.dpuf

[Dunseman]

Re: Dunseman

http://www.danz.co.uk

Pressing "more information" here shows:

Thank you Kati
Yes..I did get an email and realise I must wait for a liquidator to be appointed
Meanwhile another company..who appears to be the Danz-appointed carrier company , have contacted me and say I can buy the tub ( that I have already bought and which they appear to have in their possession) at full cost.
I am unclear as to the law here and the safety of buying from this new company ( I agree , the carriers may be owed ££ from Danz and are trying to recoup their losses by selling me the tub I have already bought , but which happens to be in their possession)
I am not sure whether to go ahead and re-buy my own tub, or to wait to see if I get a few pence in the pound from the liquidators
How I wish I had paid by credit card!

[des8]

Re: Dunseman

I would be very wary of spending another £2000 on a product which will come with no after sales support, although you would have the protection of The Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Did you ever receive a "Dispatch confirmation" email from Danz confirming an estimated date of delivery?
If so did it confirm a delivery date?

The difficulty here is that the online Terms and Conditions do not state when ownership of the goods passes from Danz to Dunseman.
Generally when the supplier is required to send goods to the buyer, ownership passes when they are delivered to the buyer and not to the carrier.
It could be argued that in this case the carrier should return the items to Danz.
However Danz state that they will endeavour to fullfill existing paid for orders from existing stocks, although the administrators when appointed might have a different view.

I wonder if it be worthwhile obtaining a court order preventing the carriers from disposing of the tub until a court decides on its ownership.
You could then initiate a court action to have the carriers deliver your tub.

[wales01man]

Re: Dunseman

Hard to believe a Courier canl sell goods that may belong to a company going through liquidation?

Who are the Couriers

[thesockpuppet]

Re: Dunseman

Dunseman

I'm a former Danz Spas employee (I left 1 year prior to liquidation). I can offer some advice here.

Combined Shipping own "your" hot tub im afraid. They buy the tubs from China, Danz sell them and then once the order is ready for delivery, Danz pay Combined Shipping for the tub plus a delivery fee.

The stock isn't Danz' property and therefore isnt an asset of the business. Liquidators nor courts can force Combined Shipping to release it because essentially they haven't been paid for it.

My advice, DONT DO IT. They are not a hot tub company, they have no hot tub expertise or engineers or qualified people. Theyre just a freight company.

If you buy from them you'll get a warranty that's worth jack sh*t...

If you have any further questions I'll do my best to answer to the best of my knowledge and expertise as someone that spent years in the hot tub industry.

[Dunseman]

Re: Dunseman

Dunseman

I'm a former Danz Spas employee (I left 1 year prior to liquidation). I can offer some advice here.

Combined Shipping own "your" hot tub im afraid. They buy the tubs from China, Danz sell them and then once the order is ready for delivery, Danz pay Combined Shipping for the tub plus a delivery fee.

The stock isn't Danz' property and therefore isnt an asset of the business. Liquidators nor courts can force Combined Shipping to release it because essentially they haven't been paid for it.

My advice, DONT DO IT. They are not a hot tub company, they have no hot tub expertise or engineers or qualified people. Theyre just a freight company.

If you buy from them you'll get a warranty that's worth jack sh*t...

If you have any further questions I'll do my best to answer to the best of my knowledge and expertise as someone that spent years in the hot tub industry.

Thanks Sockpuppet
I'm grateful for your reply and advice
I was thinking of purchasing another 'Tiny' tub formCombined Shipping..but..given what you say..maybe not
Trouble is..I can't see any other small ( 2 person) tub on the market
Did you find , when you were working with Danz, that these 'Tiny' tubs broke down a lot?
And if they did..is there no one that can repair them?
Grateful for any info.

Dunseman

[thesockpuppet]

Re: Dunseman

Thanks Sockpuppet
I'm grateful for your reply and advice
I was thinking of purchasing another 'Tiny' tub formCombined Shipping..but..given what you say..maybe not
Trouble is..I can't see any other small ( 2 person) tub on the market
Did you find , when you were working with Danz, that these 'Tiny' tubs broke down a lot?
And if they did..is there no one that can repair them?
Grateful for any info.

Dunseman

Not a problem Dunseman.

Buying anything from Combined Shipping would be, in my opinion, a huge mistake. They're offering a labour warranty on the heater and pumps (both of which are fairly reliable pieces of kit) but the topside control unit and control box are parts-only warranty. The control units are all Balboa which is an excellent, reliable manufacturer, however any labour done on a hot tub is usually expensive, as hot tub engineers are few and far between, and you'd expect to pay a good £300 for half a day's work. One of the biggest issues with the Tiny was the water sensor position. You get in, the water level increases. You get out, and drag water out with you, the water level drops below the sensor, so the heater doesn't kick in because it thinks the tub is empty. An odd design flaw, one that was never corrected.

There sadly aren't many spas quite like the Tiny in the UK, which made it rather popular for people with a smaller budget/space.

Companies I'd avoid like the plague are BlueWhaleSpa, Hot Tub Suppliers, Super Hot Tubs and HotTubs2Buy.

If it's under £5k, it's almost certainly Chinese. Which is fine, but if it comes with any less than a 2 year parts AND LABOUR component warranty, avoid it. If the control panel isn't Balboa or Gecko, avoid it.

Any other questions, Danz or general hot tub related, I'll gladly help!