DWP : Claim against Estate.

[AVON C]

Hello there. I am a new member.

My query relates to the " Recovery from Estates Debt Management department" DWP letters that I too have just recently received much to my shock and confusion.

My Mother died last November. She named a local Solicitor as her Executor but we asked them to renounce and I took over as administrator and arranged the probate etc. This was granted on the 1st February 2016. My Brother and Nephew were beneficiaries of the residue of her estate and each received £16 000.00 The funds were distributed the following week

We lived overseas for 50 years and when we returned to England in 2004 mum received her Pension Credit. She lived with me expense free from 2004 until 2007. My Mother then moved into an Almshouse her rent was paid by the Council. She continued to receive a Pension Credit.

She was very careful with her money and her savings were made up from what she put away into the bank after paying her living expenses.

My question is this, how can the Govt morally and legally claim back money from the distributed funds that they deemed what was necessary for Mum to live on in the first place?

Comments will be most welcome.

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

Hello there. I am a new member.

My query relates to the " Recovery from Estates Debt Management department" DWP letters that I too have just recently received much to my shock and confusion.

My Mother died last November. She named a local Solicitor as her Executor but we asked them to renounce and I took over as administrator and arranged the probate etc. This was granted on the 1st February 2016. My Brother and Nephew were beneficiaries of the residue of her estate and each received £16 000.00 The funds were distributed the following week

We lived overseas for 50 years and when we returned to England in 2004 mum received her Pension Credit. She lived with me expense free from 2004 until 2007. My Mother then moved into an Almshouse her rent was paid by the Council. She continued to receive a Pension Credit.

She was very careful with her money and her savings were made up from what she put away into the bank after paying her living expenses.

My question is this, how can the Govt morally and legally claim back money from the distributed funds that they deemed what was necessary for Mum to live on in the first place?

Comments will be most welcome.

Hello Avon. Was this an over payment of Pension Credit? Can you post the letter here thanks? Is the claim against anyone in particular? This is county court matter (ie not criminal), and DWP/ its collection agent must prove that the debt is owed by the beneficiaries. How much Pension Credit are they saying was either overpaid or owing to the change of circumstances (your mother's death) not being reported?

[AVON C]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

Thanks for the feedback Openlaw.

This is in respect of Pension Credit. As yet, they have not mentioned any that sum they might be wanting to reclaim, they are implying that she may have been overpaid. DWP have now sent me another letter (today) asking for a break down of her assets that have been distributed. As mentioned in my original post, the residue of her estate after expenses consisted only of her bank savings account. There have been no change of circumstances up until her death. Neither did she have any savings before her Pension Credit began in 2004.

My question is this, how can the Govt morally and legally claim back money from the distributed funds that they deemed what was necessary for Mum to live on in the first place? (pension Credit)

Thank you.

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

Thanks for the feedback Openlaw.

This is in respect of Pension Credit. As yet, they have not mentioned any that sum they might be wanting to reclaim, they are implying that she may have been overpaid. DWP have now sent me another letter (today) asking for a break down of her assets that have been distributed. As mentioned in my original post, the residue of her estate after expenses consisted only of her bank savings account. There have been no change of circumstances up until her death. Neither did she have any savings before her Pension Credit began in 2004.

My question is this, how can the Govt morally and legally claim back money from the distributed funds that they deemed what was necessary for Mum to live on in the first place? (pension Credit)

Thank you.

'May' have 'over-paid'...until those words/ terms change to 'has/ had' and 'over-paid' I would not send them a thing. You are under no obligation to send them any proof of savings' she might have had. Only if there were an actual overpayment then these letters are just wings and a prayer, a hope that you'll take the bait. DWP, very controversially at that, 'may' be able to make claims against the estate under law but once the estate has been distributed/ administrated, there are no claims to be had. The funds have been distributed to the beneficiaries, anyway, right?

[AVON C]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

Right! Openlaw.

Thanks again.

The funds have been distributed. (Their letter letters started coming in to me later.) They do however know how much the estate was as the first letter asked for this info and also asked if the estate had been distributed- I ticked their "Yes" Box. I thought that that would be the end of it.

I too am very tempted to ignore any other correspondence including the one received today that asks for the breakdown. Surely they have their own records of any dealings that they may have had with my Mum. I did have to repay one week's pension to DWP that was paid two days after she left us.

It might be helpful to add that when I registered her death I used the "Tell it once" option at the registrar's office. DWP would have been one of the recipients.
How I hate these brown envelopes and tatty newsprint paper letters. Why do they have to hound the little people like this? I need a soapbox at Hyde Park!

[charitynjw]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

I believe/have seen elsewhere that the executors can be chased by DWP for any overpayment.

'Tell it once' would have informed DWP.

[AVON C]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

Yes, Charity NJW- I have read other similar posts.

[enaid]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

The Almshouse where your mum was, should have had all your mums financial information as it would have or should have been entered on the application form.
Not sure if they would have received any info re the assessment but your mum would have done on the award letter.

Assessed income periodsPC awards sometimes include an ‘assessed income period’ (AIP) duringwhich some changes in circumstances do not have to be reported. Your PCaward letter will say whether you have an AIP and how long it applies for. Atthe end of an AIP your PC will be reassessed.An AIP is awarded for a fixed period (often five years) or indefinitely. You maybe given a shorter AIP if your income or savings are expected to change inthe future. You will not be given an AIP if you are under 65, or if you have apartner who is under 60. People aged 75 will often be given an indefinite AIP,and those whose AIP runs out after they reach 80 will not normally need to bereassessed.

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

I believe/have seen elsewhere that the executors can be chased by DWP for any overpayment.

'Tell it once' would have informed DWP.

The executors do not have a duty to provide DWP with information about the estate of the deceased person. A legal practitioner however does. An executor could be a lay person elderly next-door neighbour or an educated legal practitioner friend, or the legal practitioner providing legal services as trustee for the estate etc. If DWP make enquiries into the estate then the executors should provide DWP with information but only if DWP's information is correct. The most DWP can do is take a person to a county court and make a claim that X amount is owed by Y. If there were fraud by the person on benefits that's rather different and the executor cannot withhold any information. Unless the beneficiaries knowingly received funds dishonestly (ie dishonest receipt), there is simply no liability for damages.

[AVON C]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

I doubt very much if the DWP want to dig back into my Mum's financial affairs with the Almshouse as they are sure not to get very far. Their easiest option is to question ME, her daughter as I was the named individual (Not Executor) for dealing with the Probate etc.

It has been suggested by one of the leaglebeagle members not to give the DWP the requested break down of bank savings accounts since the funds were distributed before I received the first letter from them telling me not to.

Could I be accused of withholding information, thus causing more headaches for myself? :tinysmile_cry_t:

[enaid]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

No the DWP will not get in touch with the Almshouse, I was thinking you may know your mums financial situation when she filled in the form or if you don't they may still have the info.
If you know the assessed income period for your mums PC award then the rules below apply

Changes to capital during an assessed income period

You do not have to tell us about changes to their capital during the assessed income period. However, if their capital changes and they think they could be entitled to more Pension Credit, they can tell us and ask for their Pension Credit to be recalculated. If this happens, we will ask for details of all (non-state) pension, annuity income, any equity release payments and capital at that point.
If the total is less than the figure we have been using, their Pension Credit will go up. If the total is the same as, or more than, the figure we have been using, their Pension Credit will stay the same.

[charitynjw]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

I doubt very much if the DWP want to dig back into my Mum's financial affairs with the Almshouse as they are sure not to get very far. Their easiest option is to question ME, her daughter as I was the named individual (Not Executor) for dealing with the Probate etc.

It has been suggested by one of the leaglebeagle members not to give the DWP the requested break down of bank savings accounts since the funds were distributed before I received the first letter from them telling me not to.

Could I be accused of withholding information, thus causing more headaches for myself? :tinysmile_cry_t:

I can't see where.
I can see an opinion that one has no duty to respond to a speculative letter...................

[AVON C]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

OK, let me try to make this query simple.

Mum had no other source of income other than her pension credit.

She had no private savings or investments at any time.

The cash residue from her estate due to her thriftiness during the past 12 years of receiving pension credit.

Why would the DWP need me to provide proof of this? A simple calculation by the DWP themselves would prove that it would be possible to end up with a surplus.

Do I need to provide them with bank statements as they have requested?

[Ripped-Off]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

I believe/have seen elsewhere that the executors can be chased by DWP for any overpayment.

Don't know if this is relevant but have a look at s126 of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 and perhaps Administration of Estates Act 1925.

Also at 1102 of Halsbury it states:

'Where the estate has been administered out of court the creditor is entitled to proceed against a legatee for the whole of the debt, and not merely for a proportionate part, notwithstanding that the legatee has received payment of his legacy in entire ignorance of the creditor's claim. He is entitled to attack any legatee whom he chooses, and the person attacked is entitled to a contribution from his co-legatees'.

[AVON C]

Re: DWP : Claim against Estate.

So can I presume that there is no definitive answer to my question?