Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

[worriedpartner2015]

Hi All,

a similar post has been posted which has been a great help, But I need some advice regarding a court summons for failure to provide driver details. As there is advice i need that i can't find elsewhere.

On 18/9/2015 My partner was caught doing 39 in a 30 zone, He received an NIP, which he completed and signed, I posted this for him on 29/9/2015.
In October he received a reminder but as a response had already been sent we stupidly not thinking about it threw it in the bin (I assume as I can’t find it anywhere). We have not heard a thing since then and completely forgot about it.

2 days ago he received a court summons in the post, they are charging him with the following:

1. Exceed 30mph speed limit
2. Fail to driver identification under section 172 of the road traffic act and schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders act.


They have attached a plea sheet, Statement of earnings and a witness statement from the cameras, tickets & collisions unit.

We are both understandably shocked by this, My partner completed the NIP form and I personally posted it, I did not send it recorded but I do have a text message on my phone telling him I posted his letter for him (unfortunately it doesn’t state it was the NIP).

Also on the witness statement from the police they have got dates incorrect, can this still be used in court? It states on 22/09/2015 a notice of intended prosecution was sent and that again on the 22/09/2015 (the same day) a notice of intended prosecution reminder was sent. How can this be?

He already has 3 points on his licence, He drives for a living and if found guilty he will lose his licence and his job.

We have a mortgage, couple of debts etc. Although I am not registered disabled I have back problems (2x spinal operations, the last being a spinal fusion which prevents me working, I had to quit my job but I’m not entitled to benefits) although I drive myself at times the pain or the painkillers I take stop me from driving and I have to rely on him to get me about. Our family live 60 miles away with no-one else local to 'taxi' us about.
We have a child together and he also has an autistic son he pays child maintenance for.

My questions are:
He has 21 days to respond to the charges and whether to plead guilty or not guilty, what is the best thing to do?
Obviously he will plead not guilty to the failure to provide details. Will they accept a text message as ‘proof’?

Should he plead guilty or not guilty to speeding? I’ve read somewhere as they have no proof it was him speeding they can’t charge him for that but at the same time what if the court finds him guilty, Will the punishment be worse?

Also can we use the fact they got the dates wrong in a signed witness statement? Or will this be useless?

Will they take into account my medical problem, finances, Autistic son etc?

Sorry for the long post, But I am so worried I really don’t know the best thing to do & we can’t afford to hire a solicitor.

Can anyone please give me any advice?

Thanks in advance

[PAWS]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

Right –one of the clever people will be along to help you but in the meantime try not to panic. This sounds like you made a simple mistake regarding the procedures following a run of the mill speeding ticket. As far as the penalty points I think you are allowed to have more than 9 before you lose your licence (?) and in this instance I would assume only 3 more would be added = a total of 6. As I said you made a mistake or your response to them has gone astray somewhere. This does not mean you will wind up on crime watch. So, wait and see what the smart experts have to say and try not to fret. If you do not get a response, it is just because the experts are busy so give this a bump.

[wales01man]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

Is he pleading guilty to the speeding?

[worriedpartner2015]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

He already has 3 points, If he receives 3 for speeding and 6 for 'failure to provide details' that will take him to 12 points, so he would lose his licence.

[worriedpartner2015]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

This is where we're not sure what to do.

Technically he is guilty, He did go over the speed limit and he sent the NIP back confirming he was the driver at the time, But i read on another post that as they supposedly have no evidence he was the driver they can't charge him with that offence. Is that true? But then i don't know ho he would get away with that as his defence for the other charge is that he/I posted the NIP back.

I guess the best thing to do would be to plead guilty to the speeding and not guilty to the other, This is all new to me so i really dont know what to do for the best

[wales01man]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

Guilty to speeding and not guilty to failing to declare may be the best result from local court cases round here speeding normally gets 3 points but failing to declare normally is 6 points and hefty fines and costs

[Openlaw15]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

Hi All,

a similar post has been posted which has been a great help, But I need some advice regarding a court summons for failure to provide driver details. As there is advice i need that i can't find elsewhere.

On 18/9/2015 My partner was caught doing 39 in a 30 zone, He received an NIP, which he completed and signed, I posted this for him on 29/9/2015.
In October he received a reminder but as a response had already been sent we stupidly not thinking about it threw it in the bin (I assume as I can’t find it anywhere). We have not heard a thing since then and completely forgot about it.

2 days ago he received a court summons in the post, they are charging him with the following:

1. Exceed 30mph speed limit
2. Fail to driver identification under section 172 of the road traffic act and schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders act.


They have attached a plea sheet, Statement of earnings and a witness statement from the cameras, tickets & collisions unit.

We are both understandably shocked by this, My partner completed the NIP form and I personally posted it, I did not send it recorded but I do have a text message on my phone telling him I posted his letter for him (unfortunately it doesn’t state it was the NIP).

Also on the witness statement from the police they have got dates incorrect, can this still be used in court? It states on 22/09/2015 a notice of intended prosecution was sent and that again on the 22/09/2015 (the same day) a notice of intended prosecution reminder was sent. How can this be?

He already has 3 points on his licence, He drives for a living and if found guilty he will lose his licence and his job.

We have a mortgage, couple of debts etc. Although I am not registered disabled I have back problems (2x spinal operations, the last being a spinal fusion which prevents me working, I had to quit my job but I’m not entitled to benefits) although I drive myself at times the pain or the painkillers I take stop me from driving and I have to rely on him to get me about. Our family live 60 miles away with no-one else local to 'taxi' us about.
We have a child together and he also has an autistic son he pays child maintenance for.

My questions are:
He has 21 days to respond to the charges and whether to plead guilty or not guilty, what is the best thing to do?
Obviously he will plead not guilty to the failure to provide details. Will they accept a text message as ‘proof’?

Should he plead guilty or not guilty to speeding? I’ve read somewhere as they have no proof it was him speeding they can’t charge him for that but at the same time what if the court finds him guilty, Will the punishment be worse?

Also can we use the fact they got the dates wrong in a signed witness statement? Or will this be useless?

Will they take into account my medical problem, finances, Autistic son etc?

Sorry for the long post, But I am so worried I really don’t know the best thing to do & we can’t afford to hire a solicitor.

Can anyone please give me any advice?

Thanks in advance

Hello there, Worriedpartner2015.

Please give me the details of this, for instance tell me why: "2. Fail to driver identification under section 172 of the road traffic act and schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders act. How exactly was there a failure as to his driver identification? It seems very unlikely that he will lose his licence unless he is a new driver, as he only has 3 points. The speeding guidelines are actual speed limit: 30 + 10% (3) + 2 = 35 mph. Therefore he is only 4 mph over the legal guidelines. #

His defence is that this is his livelihood. What is job that requires his licence? Your personal details: you're reliant in his income to support your family, ie you can't work owing to your problems, may help with leniency from the Magistrates' Court.

I will not advise on pleading guilty until I know what the failure you identify is, on your facts. Please try not to worry - don't this frighten you, it's not exactly serious. I have studied criminal law.

[wales01man]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

local paper reports driver convicted of failing to declare 750 fine plus 165 in costs If you are really worried consult a solicitor

[Openlaw15]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

local paper reports driver convicted of failing to declare 750 fine plus 165 in costs If you are really worried consult a solicitor

Perhaps it's not good to worry the OP with fines etc until we know the facts.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

Hi All,

a similar post has been posted which has been a great help, But I need some advice regarding a court summons for failure to provide driver details. As there is advice i need that i can't find elsewhere.

On 18/9/2015 My partner was caught doing 39 in a 30 zone, He received an NIP, which he completed and signed, I posted this for him on 29/9/2015.
In October he received a reminder but as a response had already been sent we stupidly not thinking about it threw it in the bin (I assume as I can’t find it anywhere). We have not heard a thing since then and completely forgot about it.

2 days ago he received a court summons in the post, they are charging him with the following:

1. Exceed 30mph speed limit
2. Fail to driver identification under section 172 of the road traffic act and schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders act.


They have attached a plea sheet, Statement of earnings and a witness statement from the cameras, tickets & collisions unit.

We are both understandably shocked by this, My partner completed the NIP form and I personally posted it, I did not send it recorded but I do have a text message on my phone telling him I posted his letter for him (unfortunately it doesn’t state it was the NIP).

Also on the witness statement from the police they have got dates incorrect, can this still be used in court? It states on 22/09/2015 a notice of intended prosecution was sent and that again on the 22/09/2015 (the same day) a notice of intended prosecution reminder was sent. How can this be?

He already has 3 points on his licence, He drives for a living and if found guilty he will lose his licence and his job.

We have a mortgage, couple of debts etc. Although I am not registered disabled I have back problems (2x spinal operations, the last being a spinal fusion which prevents me working, I had to quit my job but I’m not entitled to benefits) although I drive myself at times the pain or the painkillers I take stop me from driving and I have to rely on him to get me about. Our family live 60 miles away with no-one else local to 'taxi' us about.
We have a child together and he also has an autistic son he pays child maintenance for.

My questions are:
He has 21 days to respond to the charges and whether to plead guilty or not guilty, what is the best thing to do?
Obviously he will plead not guilty to the failure to provide details. Will they accept a text message as ‘proof’?

Should he plead guilty or not guilty to speeding? I’ve read somewhere as they have no proof it was him speeding they can’t charge him for that but at the same time what if the court finds him guilty, Will the punishment be worse?

Also can we use the fact they got the dates wrong in a signed witness statement? Or will this be useless?

Will they take into account my medical problem, finances, Autistic son etc?

Sorry for the long post, But I am so worried I really don’t know the best thing to do & we can’t afford to hire a solicitor.

Can anyone please give me any advice?

Thanks in advance

"He received an NIP, which he completed and signed, I posted this for him on 29/9/2015.
In October he received a reminder but as a response had already been sent we stupidly not thinking about it threw it in the bin (I assume as I can’t find it anywhere). We have not heard a thing since then and completely forgot about it.

2 days ago he received a court summons in the post, they are charging him with the following:

1. Exceed 30mph speed limit
2. Fail to driver identification under section 172 of the road traffic act and schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders act."

Your situation is a technicality, so I, on initial thoughts, cannot advise a plea of guilt at all in your circumstances. If he were to say his is guilty, he is saying he has committed the alleged offence. In my view, he has not it's rather a problem with posting Notice of Intended Prosecution. Give him a fair hearing. It is the court's job to prove the offence was committed not your partner's job. Do you have any proof that you posted the NIP? Did you make a note of it in your diary perhaps? Did you contact the person to whom the NIP was sent, if not do it now to see whether it has been received.

[wales01man]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

Just pointing the facts out so the OP can get advice the facts at the moment are they have failed to notify who the driver was according to court papers as the say they notified this must be thier defence and worth trying to get text admitted as proof of this.

[nemesis45]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

Perhaps it's not good to worry the OP with fines etc until we know the facts.

It's most certainly right for the " offender" and his partner to know exactly what could happen , they need to be
fully aware not approaching this in the dark!!

nem

[Openlaw15]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

This is where we're not sure what to do.

Technically he is guilty, He did go over the speed limit and he sent the NIP back confirming he was the driver at the time, But i read on another post that as they supposedly have no evidence he was the driver they can't charge him with that offence. Is that true? But then i don't know ho he would get away with that as his defence for the other charge is that he/I posted the NIP back.

I guess the best thing to do would be to plead guilty to the speeding and not guilty to the other, This is all new to me so i really dont know what to do for the best

There are two potential offences, speeding and failure to identify. It's not the speeding which concerns me. If he was speeding, he has no choice other than plea guilty to the offence of speeding. It's the failure to identify that is the more serious issue. If he pleads guilty to speeding, there will be no trial (where the prosecution normally proves the speeding offence), meaning he may get some leniency than if he pleaded not guilty when he was in fact guilty, ie waste's court's time....looks bad etc). He has mitigation (ie family circumstances, driving his livelihood) so he's unlikely to lose his licence for that alone.

If the prosecution tried to join both speeding and failure to identify in the same proceedings, it could be a problem. This is why he needs to have two separate proceedings in my view, one to plead guilty, ie the speeding, and a different one to plead 'not guilty' for a failure to identify. It's the failure to identify, which he is not guilty of so a not guilty plea would mean the prosecute must prove the offence (crim. liability). Unlike civil liability the burden on the courts is much stronger. i think in his circumstances if you can find the right proof especially that he should ask for a hearing for count 2 (ie failure to identify).

[worriedpartner2015]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

Thanks for your reply openlaw15.

To be honest i don't know why they are saying he failed to provide his his details. I posted them for him, The only thing i can think is either it has got lost on the post or it has been misplaced their end (i obviously don't know how they handle post when they receive it).

All i can tell you by the police witness statement (which has incorrect dates, Please see original post for this) attached to the court paperwork states "on 18th January the records held at the collaborated cameras, tickets and collisions unit were checked, which showed that a reply has not been received that has fulfilled the obligations under section 172 of the road traffic act 1988"

As previously mentioned, I posted the letter but i have no proof, Only a text message i sent my partner telling him "i posted your letter for you" but it doesn't say it was to do with the speeding. He never has to send letters which is why i'm 100% sure the text was relating to this, But how can i prove it?

If he is only issued points for the speeding he will be fine, But if he is found guilty of failure to disclose driver details they will give him an additional 6 points, which with the 3 he has and the 3 he will receive for speeding will take him to 12 points.

He works for a maintenance company, He has to drive mainly around Central London but other areas too, there is no way he can do the job without a licence, yesterday for example he was in Stevenage, Then St. James then had to travel to Wandsworth.

Hopefully i have answered your queries, Please let me know if you need me to clarify anything? I'm trying not to worry but i've had other medical problems & just when things start to look up for us something like this lands on our doorstep. Unfortunately we seem to be the unlucky type were nothing ever goes way

Thanks again

[wales01man]

Re: Court summons - Failure to provide driver details for speeding

The text is not proof it will be his word he sent it .

Stop worrying whatever happens happens try to defend it and stop stressing its not worth it