DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

[Nursey nurse]

My mother passed away at beginning of January,The DWP sent me a letter stating that she had been overpaid by about £2500 and ask me if there were insurance policies. There were two policies amounting to about £8000 but my mum owed the nursing home where she lived almost £4000 and the funeral was over £4000 so there is nothing left!
They sent me a form with the letter asking about insurance policies but the only out going it allowed for on the form was the funeral so on paper it looks like there is £4000 left ,which there isn't . Am i liable to pay the overpayment myself? should i have paid the DWP before the nursing home??
Thanks\

[Kati]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

[MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] might be able to offer some advise (I've tagged him) xx

[enaid]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

Hi and welcome, sorry for your loss and this situation.
Could you please tell us what the overpayment was for and who was funding the care home your mum was in please.
Was there nothing else in the estate?

[Nursey nurse]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

Hi The overpayment was for disability living allowance she had been in the home 10 months when they discovered she shouldn't have been getting it. the funding was partly from local authority and partly my mum from her pensions. There is no other money in the estate.

[des8]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

Thanks Kati! ... I'm just about to go out.

Hi Nursey Welcome to LB

You presumably acted as personal representative.
Was there a will?
Did you obtain probate.?

Basically DWP, like the nursing home, were unsecured creditors and the residue of the estate after funeral expenses etc should have been divided proportionally between them.
From your post I assume there was no estate left for distribution to any heirs.

[Nursey nurse]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

I didn't have power of attorney and my mother had capacity up to the end. There was no will and and no estate left. I don't know what probate is!!! I am only dealing with it as I am next of kin

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

My mother passed away at beginning of January,The DWP sent me a letter stating that she had been overpaid by about £2500 and ask me if there were insurance policies. There were two policies amounting to about £8000 but my mum owed the nursing home where she lived almost £4000 and the funeral was over £4000 so there is nothing left!
They sent me a form with the letter asking about insurance policies but the only out going it allowed for on the form was the funeral so on paper it looks like there is £4000 left ,which there isn't . Am i liable to pay the overpayment myself? should i have paid the DWP before the nursing home??
Thanks\

was there any property left?

[Nursey nurse]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

no property nothing but 2 small insurance policies

[mariefab]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

If you received the letter from the DWP after you'd used the money from the 2 policies to pay for the funeral and the care home; you could send the DWP a letter explaining this (signed for post) and enclose copies of the policies information and copies of receipts for the funeral and the care home.

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

no property nothing but 2 small insurance policies

DWP technically can make claims for overpayments but it's not so easy.

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

My mother passed away at beginning of January,The DWP sent me a letter stating that she had been overpaid by about £2500 and ask me if there were insurance policies. There were two policies amounting to about £8000 but my mum owed the nursing home where she lived almost £4000 and the funeral was over £4000 so there is nothing left!
They sent me a form with the letter asking about insurance policies but the only out going it allowed for on the form was the funeral so on paper it looks like there is £4000 left ,which there isn't . Am i liable to pay the overpayment myself? should i have paid the DWP before the nursing home??
Thanks\

If there is nothing left, there is nothing to give them. So, it's very unlikely you'll have to pay anything. Generally I would say do not show DWP documents such as bank account statements or other assets to prove beneficiary gifts as you simply are not required to do so. In your case though, I would make sure the small insurance policies were spent.. or they'll try to scare you into handing any of it over. Remember though you have done nothing wrong. These type of claims by DWP are usually against fraudsters or dishonest receiving.

[des8]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

Hmm!
Was your mother's estate insolvent before you heard from DWP ie was there enough value to pay all other debts, or is there still money owing to eg the nursing home?

As you were acting as personal representative it is possible that DWP will look to you for what they think should have been their proportion of the estate.

As the estate was insolvent, it should have been handled as per the Administration of insolvent estates of deceased persons Order 1986 and section 421 of the insolvency Act 1986.
This can be done informally.
If correct procedures are not followed creditors may try and hold liable the Personal Representative.

Whether or not DWP can do this seems to be open to question by some.

From a practical point of view I would tend to follow Mariefab's line and show DWP where the small balance, after dealing with priority debts, had gone.
At the same time don't admit to being responsible .... do it all in the third person.

[enaid]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

Hi The overpayment was for disability living allowance she had been in the home 10 months when they discovered she shouldn't have been getting it. the funding was partly from local authority and partly my mum from her pensions. There is no other money in the estate.

I can only assume from this that your mum went into a home that cost more than the LA would fund and was therefore paying what is called a top up fee?
If this is the case top up fees can be paid directly to the LA or care home and there should be a written agreement.

DLA care component is only payable for the first 4 weeks while your mum was in the home, it should have been counted as income as would Attendance Allowance for the means test towards the home funding.
DLA mobility component should not be affected, nor counted as income.
Was your mum in charge of her own finances?

[Debt Camel]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

The two insurance policies - were there names beneficiaries? Were they written in trust? The insurance cos should be able to answer these questions if you don't know.

If they were written in trust, then the money should go directly to the beneficiaries, not to your mum's estate, so that money is not available to creditors at all.

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP want overpayment from my dead mother

My mother passed away at beginning of January,The DWP sent me a letter stating that she had been overpaid by about £2500 and ask me if there were insurance policies. There were two policies amounting to about £8000 but my mum owed the nursing home where she lived almost £4000 and the funeral was over £4000 so there is nothing left!
They sent me a form with the letter asking about insurance policies but the only out going it allowed for on the form was the funeral so on paper it looks like there is £4000 left ,which there isn't . Am i liable to pay the overpayment myself? should i have paid the DWP before the nursing home??
Thanks\

Hmm. Creditor, is defined as someone to whom a person owes money. Does the OP owe anyone money? No, the OP owes no one money to be applicable to a creditor situation/ remedy. I think using the term creditor here is unnecessary. If a person were overpaid DWP benefit but later passes away without knowing there was an overpayment, any claims DWP has are against the late person's estate. They are not against the personal representative for the estate and they are not against beneficiaries. So, in my view they are not creditors against personal representatives and they are not creditors against beneficiaries whether secure or unsecure creditors for that matter. It's as though DWP or DWP interests were writing theses advisory statements to the OP sometimes. It's very much state-esque. Let's remember these OPs in the previous and current scenarios have done nothing wrong, they are neither fraudsters or dishonest recipients of misappropriated funds. I do not think the OP has remotely stated that the relevant person or estate were insolvent in terms of a bankruptcy situation. Let's also remember DWP (the state) has to prove any claim that any money is owed by any beneficiary before it remotely is considered a creditor with a claim against the personal representative or beneficiary. Whilst beneficiaries, personal representatives may unfortunately, to their own detriment, volunteer payments to DWP owing to a misguided belief, they have no such obligations to do so based on law or even moral values or democratic institutions (courts et al). Beneficiaries may also likewise provide bank statements and other means to strengthen DWP claims at a County Court, but of course are not obligated to. So, it would be useful if these person who make advisory statements to worried personal representatives/ beneficiaries do so in light of the all circumstances as though the OP has done nothing wrong, unless there is reason to rebut this assumption.