Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to do

[ilikecrisps]

Hello to everyone on this Forum, and I hope you don't mind me posting this question.

My husband was given Enduring Power of Attorney by his father in 2007. We have a photocopy of it, the original is with the solicitors who drafted the document.

My father-in-law has advanced dementia and we need to register the POA so that husband can pay his father's utility bills and sell his father's property to pay for care home fees.

However, the aforementioned solicitors are refusing to release the original document to my husband, stating that he's not their client so they're not obliged to speak to him or have any dealings with him. Is this correct?

We cannot register the POA with the Office of the Public Guardian without the original. Any advice you can give would be much appreicated!
Crisps

[EXC]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

That sounds odd. It defeats the object of the POA itself.

Is your father in law the client?

[nemesis45]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

Hello to everyone on this Forum, and I hope you don't mind me posting this question.

My husband was given Enduring Power of Attorney by his father in 2007. We have a photocopy of it, the original is with the solicitors who drafted the document.

My father-in-law has advanced dementia and we need to register the POA so that husband can pay his father's utility bills and sell his father's property to pay for care home fees.

However, the aforementioned solicitors are refusing to release the original document to my husband, stating that he's not their client so they're not obliged to speak to him or have any dealings with him. Is this correct?

We cannot register the POA with the Office of the Public Guardian without the original. Any advice you can give would be much appreicated!
Crisps

Hello Crisps,
Has the solicitor made any conditions on the provision of the original e.g. written permission from FIL.

As you already have POA I believe the solicitor is wrong the purpose of the POA is to allow you to deal
with all matters for your father in law.
My guess is they want the business and fees from this!

It may be worth speaking to the OPG explaining what's happening, perhaps they could " require" the
solicitors to release the document.

nem

[ilikecrisps]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

Yes, my father in law is the client. My husband and his uncle (the brother of his father - sorry, I know that's probably really obvious!) are the only attorneys. The uncle is very ill with cancer and he is happy for my husband to deal with all the issues involving the donor of the POA.

I would have thought that as my FIL is the client and my husband is one of the attorneys, my husband would kind of technically be the client?

Thanks.
Crisps

[nemesis45]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

[QUOTE=ilikecrisps;613281]Yes, my father in law is the client. My husband and his uncle (the brother of his father - sorry, I know that's probably really obvious!) are the only attorneys. The uncle is very ill with cancer and he is happy for my husband to deal with all the issues involving the donor of the POA.

I would have thought that as my FIL is the client and my husband is one of the attorneys, my husband would kind of technically be the client?

That's how I see it too! Contacting the OPG may help,

nem,,,,,,

Thanks.

[EXC]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

I'm not too familiar with EPA's as they were replaced with LPA's which are either Health & Welfare or Property & Affairs. What type (if any) is the EPA?

[ilikecrisps]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

Hello Crisps,
Has the solicitor made any conditions on the provision of the original e.g. written permission from FIL.

As you already have POA I believe the solicitor is wrong the purpose of the POA is to allow you to deal
with all matters for your father in law.
My guess is they want the business and fees from this!

It may be worth speaking to the OPG explaining what's happening, perhaps they could " require" the
solicitors to release the document.

nem

Thanks, Nem.
We thought the firm were just trying to get our business, too. However, because of their obstructive behaviour, the opposite is likely to happen!

We've spoken to the OPG and they've said a certified copy would suffice, but we would still need to get this from the troublesome solicitor.

We were hoping to deal with the registration of the POA ourselves and I really don't think we should have to go to the lengths of instructing a different firm just to extract this pesky document from the drafting solicitor.
Thanks.
Crisps

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not too familiar with EPA's as they were replaced with LPA's which are either Health & Welfare or Property & Affairs. What type (if any) is the EPA?

Thanks for your reply. It's an oldie, an Enduring Power of Attorney, that's all I know. Sorry!
Crisps

[EXC]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

I'd be tempted to get your husband to issue a formal complaint to the solicitors on behalf of his father. If they don't respond to you satisfaction within 8 weeks you can then go to the legal Ombudsman.

[ilikecrisps]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

I'd be tempted to get your husband to issue a formal complaint to the solicitors on behalf of his father. If they don't respond to you satisfaction within 8 weeks you can then go to the legal Ombudsman.

Thanks, EXC, and everyone else. This has been really helpful to us.
Crisps

[enaid]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

You have a few options as listed below, firstly if you FIL has enough capacity to call the solicitors and ask for the original that would be the simplest option but I can fully understand if this is not possible.

Is the EPA copy you have a certified copy ?
A copy, such as a photocopy, of an EPA can be treatedas if it were the original provided it is certified by eitherthe donor (obviously when they are mentally capable),a solicitor or stockbroker.It has to be a complete copy of the original. All pages signed either by your FIL or the solicitor.


If it is and was signed before 1st October 2007 it can still be used.
You can use the EPA before it is registered it cannot be used when the donor has lost or is losing capacity until it is registered.
There would be an A or B choice on the EPA as to if it is to be used right away or only once the donor has lost capacity.
You must also check if there are any other specific instructions on the EPA.
You can register the EPA under these circumstances if you do not have the original.

What if the original Enduring Power of Attorney has been lost?If the original EPA has been lost, destroyed or stolen a certifiedcopy can be registered. If you submit a certified copy, you mustconfirm the loss of the original EPA in writing. An uncertifiedphotocopy will only be registered on the Court’s order.

If your copy is certified then you could use that stating the solicitor will not release the original to you. how to register EPA
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...er-of-attorney


As long as your FIL still has capacity the original unregistered EPA can be revoked and a new LPA done https://www.gov.uk/use-or-cancel-an-...er-of-attorney
As this was done some years ago and as there is another attorney who is possibly no longer willing or able to be an attorney it may make things easier. You may also wish to set up a Health and Welfare LPA

Cancel an unregistered EPA


To cancel an EPA before you lose mental capacity, make a ‘deed of revocation’ stating that you’re cancelling it and keep it with the EPA form. You and a witness must both sign the deed of revocation.
Don’t send the unregistered EPA and deed of revocation to the Office of the Public Guardian - you need to keep them.

You must let your attorney or attorneys and any relevant banks and financial providers know that you’re cancelling your EPA.
Use the following words and replace the words in the square brackets with the relevant details:
Deed of revocation
“This deed of revocation is made by [your name] of [your address].
1: I granted an enduring power of attorney on [date you signed the enduring power of attorney] appointing [name of first attorney] of [address of first attorney] and [name of second attorney] of [address of second attorney] to act as my attorney(s).
2: I revoke the enduring power of attorney and the authority granted by it.
Signed and delivered as a deed [your signature]
Date signed [date]
Witnessed by [signature of witness]
Full name of witness [name of witness]
Address of witness [address of witness]”

[ilikecrisps]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

Thanks, Enaid. Yes, the EPa was dated prior to 1st October 2007 and, unfortunately, my FIL has very advanced dementia so is incapable of making any decisions himself.

Alarmingly, we have just discovered through my FIL's care home visitors book that he was visited by his solicitor a couple of months ago and we don't know why. My FIL obviously has no recollection of the visit and he thinks everyone he sees is his brother, whether the visitor is male or female. As is common with dementia, he has an obsession that everyone's trying to take his money and is indiscriminately verbally abusive and accusatory to those around him. It's all very sad.

Taking the mysterious visit by the solicitor into account, we we wondering whether there could be any chance the EPA has been revoked? If so, would the existing attorneys have to be informed?

Thanks.
Crisps

[enaid]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

Hi and my opinion is they visited your FIL to assess if he lacked capacity as this seems to be the case the EPA will have to be registered.
Did you check if your copy was certified?

[ilikecrisps]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

Hi and my opinion is they visited your FIL to assess if he lacked capacity as this seems to be the case the EPA will have to be registered.
Did you check if your copy was certified?

Thanks, Enaid.
Unfortunately, our copy has not been certified.
Crisps

[enaid]

Re: Help! Solicitor won't release oringal Power of Attorney and we don't know what to

You can register with an uncertified copy but it will have to go before court and costs will be involved plus a lot of messing
.I would get back to the Solicitor, take proof of ID as that is all should be needed as attorney(s) if it's stipulated jointly and severally your OH may be ok going on his own, if jointly then I suggest his brother goes along too.
Explain that the EPA now needs to be registered by the ATTORNEYS as it is their duty, mention you have been on to OPG and as the copy they provided was uncertified the original or certified copies by yourself must be provided,.. They should be able to certify the copies it has to be done by a sol, there maybe a small charge
I would (but you may not wish to) mention it was brought to your attention a solicitor(name him if you can) visited your FIL on date if you know it.
Can they disclose the nature and the outcome of the vist.