Dispute over warranty Contract

[csnape]

Hi There,

I purchased a car from my local Evans Halshaw dealer 6 months ago and took out a warranty with the vechile. the vechile is 2006, paid 3.7 k for this and extra for the warranty contract.

Last week we had the engine management light come on, the dealer took a look and diagnosed this as a faulty EGR Valve (Exhaust Gas recirculation Valve)

The job of the EGR valve is to recirculate exhaust gases back into the engine.

My warranty does list that it covers inlet and exhaust valves which i have pointed out to them many times but they are still advising that its not covered in the contract as this is part of the exhaust.

I feel that there trying to pull a fast one with this and would like to hear other peoples input on this from a legal standpoint. I can verify that the EGR valve does not come under the exclusions. My argument to them has been (and still is) that this is part of engine as it works in conjuction.

I have also uploaded the page from my warranty contract.

Kind Regards
C

[ostell]

Re: Dispute over warranty Contract

I've had similar problems with a warranty where a electronic component inside the gear box failed and the garage (possibly the same lot) said that it wasn't covered because it was not a mechanical failure. Eventually, after lots of threats, the cost of repair was paid, even in excess of the covered value.

I suspect that what is stated as not covered is the exhaust system, ie the bits that would normally be expected to wear out. The valve is possibly in the exhaust manifold which is not the part that would be expected to wear out. See if you can find out where it is fitted.

[des8]

Re: Dispute over warranty Contract

Not an engineer but I would guess that an EGR valve is part of the exhaust system, but it is also part of the combustion system.
It regulates the amount of exhaust gases (about 5%) that are fed back into the combustion chambers.
I doubt that it is part of the system excluded under the warranty.

My cars are pre such niceties!

[Openlaw15]

Re: Dispute over warranty Contract

Hi There,

I purchased a car from my local Evans Halshaw dealer 6 months ago and took out a warranty with the vechile. the vechile is 2006, paid 3.7 k for this and extra for the warranty contract.

Last week we had the engine management light come on, the dealer took a look and diagnosed this as a faulty EGR Valve (Exhaust Gas recirculation Valve)

The job of the EGR valve is to recirculate exhaust gases back into the engine.

My warranty does list that it covers inlet and exhaust valves which i have pointed out to them many times but they are still advising that its not covered in the contract as this is part of the exhaust.

I feel that there trying to pull a fast one with this and would like to hear other peoples input on this from a legal standpoint. I can verify that the EGR valve does not come under the exclusions. My argument to them has been (and still is) that this is part of engine as it works in conjuction.

I have also uploaded the page from my warranty contract.

Kind Regards
C

"does not affect your statutory rights"....read the contract clause.

1) statutory rights defeat warranties anyway

Manufacturers know that you don't need warranties as consumer rights are covered sections 13/ 14 under the Sales of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)/ equivalent services legislation (1994 Act). Statutory rights cannot stand in the place of Parliament's legislation and they well know this. Supplier's or manufacturer's warranty are not certain regardless of what the manufacturer states, as the role is for the court to interpret terms, only on this basis will the term be construed as either a warranty or a condition.

Tell Evans Halshaw that you will take court action for contract damages and seek a remedy for 'specific performance' as well. Specific performance means Evans have to perform the contract, including repairing the vehicle as 1 it falls within the statute and 2), you have paid extra for a warranty which you really did not need with the expectation that the vehicle was in good working condition and in any event, I believe Evans also make another representation that Evans cars are fully tested and indicates such on the windscreen. There is also an expectation that the reasonable person who purchases goods especially motor vehicles where a warranty is paid for that this would generally cover all mechanical parts.

[des8]

Re: Dispute over warranty Contract

You have had the car 6 months. The car is 9 years old.
The life of an EGR valve depends on the use the vehicle gets.
If it is used on short journeys only they can clog up in less than 30,000 miles.
I doubt it is worth going down the statutory claim road .... IMO the car would seem to have been fit for purpose, taking into account its age.
Re the warranty: I find it too difficult to read but I note the valves referred to are specifically the inlet and exhaust valves. These do NOT include the EGR valve which is a completely different part.

[Tools]

Re: Dispute over warranty Contract

The EGR valve is fitted to the exhaust manifold and recirculates a regulated amount of exhaust gasses back into the air intake for reburning any unburnt fuel that may be in the exhaust gasses. It is not classed as "exhaust valves" within the engine, that is something entirely different and contained internally within the cylinder head.

Whilst I would not class it as solely apart of the exhaust system, it does technically come under the heading of "the exhaust system".

Can you upload any other pages (exclusions etc) on the warranty description and also tell me what make/model the vehicle is.

Also, you say the engine management light came on, did the performance of the vehicle suffer or was it just the fact the light came on?

[csnape]

Re: Dispute over warranty Contract

Thanks, I am getting further clarification but believe that this is bolted into the side of the engine.

- - - Updated - - -

"does not affect your statutory rights"....read the contract clause.

1) statutory rights defeat warranties anyway

Manufacturers know that you don't need warranties as consumer rights are covered sections 13/ 14 under the Sales of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)/ equivalent services legislation (1994 Act). Statutory rights cannot stand in the place of Parliament's legislation and they well know this. Supplier's or manufacturer's warranty are not certain regardless of what the manufacturer states, as the role is for the court to interpret terms, only on this basis will the term be construed as either a warranty or a condition.

Tell Evans Halshaw that you will take court action for contract damages and seek a remedy for 'specific performance' as well. Specific performance means Evans have to perform the contract, including repairing the vehicle as 1 it falls within the statute and 2), you have paid extra for a warranty which you really did not need with the expectation that the vehicle was in good working condition and in any event, I believe Evans also make another representation that Evans cars are fully tested and indicates such on the windscreen. There is also an expectation that the reasonable person who purchases goods especially motor vehicles where a warranty is paid for that this would generally cover all mechanical parts.

Thanks for your input, I submitted a formal complaint yesterday after exhausting all other routes. I am currently waiting for a member of management to call to further discuss this.

Something else that i remember, at the time of sale we didnt intially take out the warranty, however Evans advised that we had to sign a document (if we didnt take the warranty), which basically outlined that if a part fails/fault occurs the dealer will only be liable for £500 ponds worth and the rest will be down to me (including the labor costs of whatever work was involved to fix a fault)

Looking back on this now Im not sure on the legality of this, seems a bit of a money making/money saving tactic

[csnape]

Re: Dispute over warranty Contract

The EGR valve is fitted to the exhaust manifold and recirculates a regulated amount of exhaust gasses back into the air intake for reburning any unburnt fuel that may be in the exhaust gasses. It is not classed as "exhaust valves" within the engine, that is something entirely different and contained internally within the cylinder head.

Whilst I would not class it as solely apart of the exhaust system, it does technically come under the heading of "the exhaust system".

Can you upload any other pages (exclusions etc) on the warranty description and also tell me what make/model the vehicle is.

Also, you say the engine management light came on, did the performance of the vehicle suffer or was it just the fact the light came on?

Thanks for the clarification. Its a Vauxhall Zafira.

The engine management light did come on, but didnt seem to inpact the performance much it did seem to run rough. The dealer advised that they did a DPF regeneration and this has cleared the fault from the ECU, engine does seem to run smoother. But still advised the EGR valve was the cause.

The fourm is actually compressing the hi res images which i uploaded making it harder to read so I have hosted them with the links below, You should hopefully be able to see them okay. Page 4 includes the exclusions which dont list any other parts of the engine.

Page 2 http://oi66.tinypic.com/168eg45.jpg
Page 3 http://oi66.tinypic.com/2af0bvr.jpg
Page 4 http://oi66.tinypic.com/2rdds0l.jpg

Many Thanks for your input

[csnape]

Re: Dispute over warranty Contract

Not an engineer but I would guess that an EGR valve is part of the exhaust system, but it is also part of the combustion system.
It regulates the amount of exhaust gases (about 5%) that are fed back into the combustion chambers.
I doubt that it is part of the system excluded under the warranty.

My cars are pre such niceties!

I did think this initially but after doing some research it seems to be a rarther grey area. some may side with the dealer on the point that its not part of normal engine function, but since the valve recirculates gasses back into the engine it could be seen in light as a working part of the engine. This is my opinion of course

[csnape]

Re: Dispute over warranty Contract

Thanks for your input, ive had a lot of different people at the dealership give different opinions it does feel that they dont really know to an extent.

Sorry about the quality, The site is compressing the hi res pics upon upload.
I have a direct link here which covers the parts listed, And i agree it does seem good, maybe just bad luck that this part failed.
Page 2 link http://oi66.tinypic.com/168eg45.jpg

We do sometimes use the vechile for small runs however every other day I take the vechile to work which is largely country roads, eg no stop starts involved

[des8]

Re: Dispute over warranty Contract

Zafira's tend to burn oil.
Burnt oil produces carbon (hence in "the old days" we were always decoking our engines)
That carbon chokes up the EGR valve.
I doubt it is covered by the warranty as it will be classed as normal wear and tear.
Your warranty is for breakdown as defined in the section "what is covered"

It may be possible to clean the valve, or even to blank it off, but it depends on your model as Vauxhall used more than one type of valve.

But, hey, keep pushing as they may come to some arrangement just to keep a customer happy and coming back later.