Legal advice please

[hayclan]

The LA told lies to a tribunal and I was found guilty of an overpayment and refused an appeal (I can prove the lies) then the LA charged me with a criminal offence and I was found guilty, I appealed and basically the LA offered no evidence against me and all charges quashed. The prosecution was malicious/abuse of process. Two things, is there anything I can do to overturn the tribunal decision regarding the overpayment and what action can I take against the LA for this abuse of process? I lost my home and contents and they raked through every corner of my life with their investigations. The harrassment of me must have cost the residents a pretty packet. I would appreciate any advice you may have. Thank you.

[des8]

Re: Legal advice please

You won your appeal in the Crown Court because the case in the magistrates court hadn't been brought in time.

IMO that will not give you cause to challenge the tribunal's decision, for which you have already been refused permission to appeal.
You say that the LA lied, and you can now prove they lied. Were you not able to show they were lying at the tribunal?

You believe the LA were guilty of abuse of process by bringing the criminal charges in the magistrates court.
However the Tribunal had already found against you, and the magistrates, not only did not perceive the case against you as malicious, but actually found you guilty.
Your win at crown court was on technical grounds.

Now I am not making judgements about what has happened, but I do not think you will be successful in any action you try and bring.
I truly admire you for standing up for yourself, and being vindicated, but to try and overturn the Tribunal's decision, and bring an action for malicious abuse of process would be daunting.

I hope others will advise, even if in contradiction of my opinion ('cos that's all it is) to help you

[stevemLS]

Re: Legal advice please

Afraid I agree with des.

Just to add the Tribunal operate to the lower civil standard of proof rather than the criminal standard that the Magistrates had to apply.

So, having been successfully prosecuted on the criminal standard, albeit that conviction being quashed on technical/procedural grounds, the chances of having the decision made on the civil standard overturned is very low.

[hayclan]

Re: Legal advice please

[QUOTE=stevemLS;547438]Afraid I agree with des.

Just to add the Tribunal operate to the lower civil standard of proof rather than the criminal standard that the Magistrates had to apply.
Hi, I understand your sentiments and ordinairily I would agree but plz bear with me. I am entitled to be away from my home for up to 13wks for H/B purposes, I was never away for more than 5wks at any given time, I kept the LA informed of all that I was doing. The LA said that I had moved out without telling them. I have reams of conversation beteen us showing that were no relevant changes in my circumstances. In March 2013 late at night there was a loud banging on my door, I answered and a man who I initilally thought was drunk started shouting 'you have to let me in' I asked him who he was and what did he want but he kept repeating himself and trying to push his way in I realised then that he wasn't drunk but defo on 'something' I shut the door and phoned the police & told them that he was high on something well it turned out that he was an investigating officer from the LA and he told the police that he was there to deliver a letter!! only after that did the LA start on me. This same officer is the one that gathered evidence against me (all bogus). At the Tribunal I showed my evidence but it was ignored & I wasn't allowed to discuss much of my evidence because it involved this officer and they were not in 'the habit' of bringing disrepute to an AO etc it was unbelievable. When I arrived at the tribunal I was assured that they were fair and impartial and when it was time to leave the LA would also leave but when I went into the tribunal there was the Judge, a recorder and the LA who all had a glass of water in front of them approx half full and after a few mins the LA drank from his glass so I know they were together before I was called in even though they made it appear that he had just walked in with me. The reasons given for the decision were 100% wrong in law and nobody cared because I had defamed an officer!! In the Magistrates Court i stood up to give evidence the prosecution asked me if I remembered the night he came round I said yes then was asked if I had a criminal record I said no then this same officer came flying across the room with my criminal record showing I was a liar, 15yrs ago I slapped another girl around the face and was charged with common assault and paid £75.00 compensation, I'd said no because it was spent and nothing to do with the case anyway the magistrates had to leave the room and were gone at least an hr they returned and I apologised to them and explained my reasons I also said it was a long time ago, the prosecution objected to that and they had to leave again this time when they returned a few points of law were explained they then left again and returned a guilty verdict! I hadn't even given any evidence it was a total farce and that's why I dismissed my solicitor the whole case was orchastrated purely to stop me talking about what happened that night. This same officer is the one that signed a s116 in Jan 2013 and another s116 in Feb 2014 he has fabricated all the evidence against me and I can prove it. He made this personal due to what I told the police about him when I phoned them.

[des8]

Re: Legal advice please

" The reasons given for the decision were 100% wrong in law"
You can only appeal to an upper tribunal if you believe the tribunal did not apply the law correctly.
I suspect that if you want to go down this route (and you seem pretty set on it!) you will need on the spot advice and guidance.
A good place to start may be here: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_services_directory

As you have overturned the magistrates court conviction I doubt anything more can be done there.

If you get the tribunal decision reversed, then would be the time to tackle the council.
My advice would be to take it one step at a time.

[Excel]

Re: Legal advice please

You said in a previous thread that information given by British Gas to the Tribunal was wrong, and it helped convict you of Housing Benefit fraud. You weren't allowed to challenge the evidence at the Tribunal for accuracy or didn't notice until after that it was incorrect. British Gas said you were the account holder for a second home you were staying in during January and February 2012, and that you spent £1018 on gas during that time. You say the gas bill was only £301 and the house doesn't have a heating system.

Who is the account holder for this second home, and do the British Gas bills for that address show that? How have those bills been paid? By cheque or card? Anything that has the account holder's name recorded.

Do British Gas's records show £1018 was paid for that address for those months, or a lower amount? Who is named as the payer in their records?

While you were staying at the second home, you were still paying rent on the first one and claiming housing benefit for it?

Do the gas and electricity bills for the first home show a decrease in usage for the time you were staying at the second home?

What other wrong information did British Gas give the Tribunal?

Have you complained to the Information Commissioner's Office about the wrong data supplied to the Tribunal?

here

here

If the ICO can't or won't help, write to your local MP and ask them to either ask the ICO to take up your case, or directly ask British Gas to say why its records are different to the paper bills you have. Think about also making a Companies Investigation Branch or Trading Standards complaint.

Does your Council have a complaints procedure you can use to tell them their investigator made up evidence? Or do you have no confidence a complaint would do anything for you? Have you also written to, emailed or spoken to any of your local councillors about this?

Have you made a Freedom of Information Request to the council for details of your case and how it was handled?

Has the council ever said why its investigator turned up unannounced at your home, late at night, and acted violently? Was he still shouting and hitting the door when you made your 999 call, and was any of that recorded by the 999 operator? Can you get a copy of that recording?

After the police interviewed the investigator, did they agree with you that he was on drugs or drunk? Did they breath test or drugs test him? Can you get a copy of any written notes or report they made about it? Is there a police car camera video of what happened?

Has the council ever said why its investigator needed to give you a letter in person, instead of posting it by recorded delivery?

If nothing works for you, try the Local Government Ombudsman

If you still need money, like for buying a court transcript, try using a crowdfunding website like GoFundMe. Say what you're trying to do, what the money will be used for, and how much everything may cost.

[stevemLS]

Re: Legal advice please

You said in a previous thread that information given by British Gas to the Tribunal was wrong, and it helped convict you of Housing Benefit fraud. You weren't allowed to challenge the evidence at the Tribunal for accuracy or didn't notice until after that it was incorrect. British Gas said you were the account holder for a second home you were staying in during January and February 2012, and that you spent £1018 on gas during that time. You say the gas bill was only £301 and the house doesn't have a heating system.

Who is the account holder for this second home, and do the British Gas bills for that address show that? How have those bills been paid? By cheque or card? Anything that has the account holder's name recorded.

Do British Gas's records show £1018 was paid for that address for those months, or a lower amount? Who is named as the payer in their records?

While you were staying at the second home, you were still paying rent on the first one and claiming housing benefit for it?

Do the gas and electricity bills for the first home show a decrease in usage for the time you were staying at the second home?

What other wrong information did British Gas give the Tribunal?

Have you complained to the Information Commissioner's Office about the wrong data supplied to the Tribunal?

here

here

If the ICO can't or won't help, write to your local MP and ask them to either ask the ICO to take up your case, or directly ask British Gas to say why its records are different to the paper bills you have. Think about also making a Companies Investigation Branch or Trading Standards complaint.

Does your Council have a complaints procedure you can use to tell them their investigator made up evidence? Or do you have no confidence a complaint would do anything for you? Have you also written to, emailed or spoken to any of your local councillors about this?

Have you made a Freedom of Information Request to the council for details of your case and how it was handled?

Has the council ever said why its investigator turned up unannounced at your home, late at night, and acted violently? Was he still shouting and hitting the door when you made your 999 call, and was any of that recorded by the 999 operator? Can you get a copy of that recording?

After the police interviewed the investigator, did they agree with you that he was on drugs or drunk? Did they breath test or drugs test him? Can you get a copy of any written notes or report they made about it? Is there a police car camera video of what happened?

Has the council ever said why its investigator needed to give you a letter in person, instead of posting it by recorded delivery?

If nothing works for you, try the Local Government Ombudsman

If you still need money, like for buying a court transcript, try using a crowdfunding website like GoFundMe. Say what you're trying to do, what the money will be used for, and how much everything may cost.

Unfortunately most of these suggestions are likely to prove fruitless.

Every council complaints process I have seen excludes from matters which may be complained about those which have been the subject of litigation.

Similarly, the LGO cannot investigate any matter which is subject to a right of appeal to a court or tribunal (s26(6) Local Government Act 1974) (unless the Ombudsman thinks it reasonable for the complainant not to have had the matter considered.

Information will not be released under the FOIA as it is sensitive personal data relating to a living person and/or that it is exempt under s30 or s31 (Law enforcement or the prevention or detection of crime.

It will be similarly exempt from disclosure by both the police and the local authority under the exemption at s29 DPA 1998 (Crime and taxation).

I don't want to be a wet blanket but just want to discourage halcyon from pursuing avenues which are most unlikely to be of assistance to them.

I would suggest that a discussion with your councillor might be helpful, they may get information which would not be disclosed to you and might be able to give you some explanations.

[hayclan]

Re: Legal advice please

Hi Excel, Thank you.

My estranged husband was the account holder for Gas & Elec it is his property. He abandoned the property in OCT 2010 (he hasn't been well for a while) & asked me to sell it for him, only after I received the deeds did I see that it was leasehold and only 33yrs left so couldn't go on the open market & many other problems arose.

I contacted BG and asked them if a payment system could be set up as I would be responsible for the gas usage till the sale, they said no, not without my husbands permission.

No money has ever been paid on the Account since OCT 2010!! BG said I was the Account holder since Sept 1st 2010 which is untrue, my husband was still resident then.

The £1018.00 was the total amount owing from 2010 - 2013 (the only gas used was by a single cooker) the bills arrive addressed to either myself/my husband or the Occupier.

Yes there was a decrease in my usage at my home due to me spending time at my husbands property trying to 'clean/repair but I visited my home often and kept the LA updated on my progress.

BG put in a witness statement saying that I was the account holder (husbands property) since Sept 1st 2010, that 11wks of gas usage (husbands property) was £1018.00 (I have the annual bill which includes those 11wks & it was £301) They said that the elec usage at my home for 6mths was £55.00 which was untrue as it was £127.30 (I have the bills). my husband is still the account holder for elec at his property and the LA still charged him C/T as he left it furnished. My Husbands LA is B,Ham and I contacted them to let them know what I was doing at the property and they visited me here and were quite happy about it. My LA, Sandwell & Dudley also knew that I was spending some time here and why and were fine with it. I do have liberty and can be away for up to 13wks and I never exceeded 5wks.

Yes H/B was being paid on my home. I did complain to BG and sent them the proof of there error but that just resulted in another witness statement by a different Data Adviser confirming the 1st witness statement was correct, unbelievable!!

I had to complain to the Chief Executive about his officer (Sandwell) 3 times before he answered me (3mths later) he enclosed a copy of an email illicited by his officer on his behalf saying he didn't smell of alcohol and didn't appear to be on drugs, it said that the officer was smartly dressed whereas I was scruffy (fashion police). The 999 operater did hear him banging on my window and shouting at me that's why the police arrived. I have tried numerous times to get a copy/transcript of the 999 call and the police notes but I get no response (the officer is an ex policeman). The reason given for his visit that night was to 'deliver a letter' the reason was only given by the officer himself.

All my complaints have fallen on deaf ears. The only investigation done was by the officer himself for himself. The Tribunal and Magistrates were conduction purely to protect the officers reputation. The officer told the tribunal (with no proof) that I was the account holder for elec, gas & water at my husbands property and it was accepted!! He also told B,Ham LA C/T dept that I was living here, they did visit and was satisfied that I wasn't living here. All this came after his visit.

The Magistrates found me guilty (without me giving evidence) and were stopped from sentencing me as the officer wanted to get a confiscation order against me in the Crown Court and a date for that hearing was set (approx 5wks later). The officer had investigated me to the hilt and was well aware that I had nothing, owned nothing. My husbands property has nothing to do with me but there was no stopping him. Due to my appeal I was removed from the Crown court list. Almost a yr later and still waiting for my appeal to be heard I was informed that they were no longer seeking the order.

The same officer is the one that signed the s116 certificate on Jan 23 2013 and visited me on the evening in March 2013, he then signed another s116 in Feb 2014.
Thank you.

[hayclan]

Re: Legal advice please

Hi stevenmLS, I have made many complaints and I am well aware that they go nowhere, that is why I want to find a way to expose them and be compensated. It may appear that I 'Got off' due to a technicality but I swear hand on heart I did no wrong, broke no law or reg. I have plenty evidence that would destroy there bogus claims and I believe I would have succeded if my appeal had been heard. They took my home & all it's contents, investigated me to the hilt and told outright lies about me etc it's been vile. They made me and my daughters homeless. I have no claim on my husbands property so it's only a matter of time till I will have to leave. The property has no heating and is in a state of disrepair, as soon as it gets cold the inside gets covered in mold & the smell is horrible. All this because I 'had' to phone the police on an aggresive bully who wouldn't even tell me who he was or what he wanted.
Thank you.