Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

[blondel22]

Hi everyone and thank you in advance for any advice given, and apologies if there is a similar thread!

Back in 2005 i defaulted on a loan i had with EGG banking which was ccj'd and then secured on my house as a second charge.
In 2006 i had a complete breakdown through debt and divorce problems and left the country for nearly 3 years to work abroad.
The house was repossessed(no shortfall)in 2007 and roughly 70% of the ccj'd second charge paid(found this out via my credit file some years later)
I came back to the UK in 2009 and heard nothing about the balance of this debt until 4 days ago when i got a letter from Wilkin Chapman acting on behalf of Arrow Global saying they had been instructed to pursue me.
They have enclosed details of the original ccj which i have phoned the court about and they say the claim number is correct but the ccj was issued to Egg banking and not anybody else.
Can this be enforced on me by Arrow who presumably bought the debt afterwards even though the ccj was not brought by them?
I can post a copy of the letter from wilkin Chapman if needed.
It feels like a fishing exercise to me but i would be very grateful if anybody has any advice as to how i should respond if at all?
Unfortunately this comes just at the moment when myself and my new wife have been accepted for a small mortgage(the lender is happy with the ccj and repossession because of the age of them)and the solicitor has said i must disclose this as it is a material fact.Now i am paranoid we will be declined......

Many thanks

[blondel22]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

Anybody got any advice?

[nemesis45]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

Hi,

I think AG / WC are going to have great difficulty ii getting the courts to allow them to enforce this after so long, 9 years is far to long.
Mortgage shortfall debt can still be chased for up to 12 years, but the Council of Mortgage Lenders has agreed that these debts should not be pursued after 6 years if there has been no contact with the borrower, if your mortgage lender was CML member and did not pursue this then it is possible court will reject/ refuse to allow the claim to be reopened.

Please do post Chapman's Letter suitably redacted of course.

[siferetto]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

This sounds like a Charging Order rather than a second (mortgage) charge as you say you "found out about it"?

The first thing Arrow have to prove, however, is that the CCJ has been assigned to them through the Court. Until that happens you don't have to disclose anything to your new mortgage lender as no "material" facts have been proven.

[blondel22]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

Thank you nemesis45 and siferetto for your advice.I am posting the letter i got from wilkin chapman as suggested.

[siferetto]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

Well, first of all, yes it is a fishing expredition. And if, as you say, the CCJ was obtained by EGG then they are misleading you by saying they are chasing a judgement obtained by Arrow? Therefore, in the first instance, you need to write to them requesting they provide evidence of their clients "judgement debt" obtained as you are not aware of any debt due to Arrow Global.

If they come back saying they have purchased the debt from EGG, then they will need to provide evidence the debt was re-assigned to Arrow and, more importantly, that the CCJ obtained by EGG was re-assigned to them by a Court. I doubt, very much, given that the judgement is over 6 years (and you haven't been contacted by them in the meantime) that this would have been done?

So you need to get clarification of what it is they do have.

[Nibbler]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

Reads to me as this was:

- Originally non secured debt with Egg.
- Subsequently a CCJ, and charging order was obtained on the house.
- House later sold with no shortfall, and some surplus used to pay off part of the judgement debt.
- Hence the charge is defunct as the property is no longer held by the debtor.
- So it is not any sort or mortgage or secured loan shortfall, but is as a result of that just a plain old judgement debt.
- That happened in 2007 and nothing paid or enforced since.
- Now it has popped up 7 years later with Arrow/WC who seem to own it, and are threatening enforcement after that 7 year gap.

Correct me if I am wrong on any of that summary?

[blondel22]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

Spot on!
Everything i have been unable to find out says its unenforceable but there is always that niggling doubt.....
Thank you both for your advice.

[TalbotWoods]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

Just a thought for what it is worth.

The CCJ was secured via the charge.
70% of the CCJ was paid off, thus retuning 30% of the CCJ to unsecured.
Wilkin Chapmans are now chasing the outstanding 30% of the CCJ.

The Charge is now irrelevant is it not?

Arrow may have bought the debt and thus the CCJ, but ownership need to be challenged, however, as they were confident enough to enclose the CCJ then I think Arrow may be able to prove this quite easily, and are very confient they have the right person.

Ownership may be irrelevant, as who ever owns it could/will chase it, so if Arrow don't, then the legal owner might/can.

Because the OP left the UK, they were not able to take further action on the CCJ, after the 70% was paid off.
Did the OP notify in writing the debt owner of their address when they returned to the UK?

Arrow/Chapmans have now tracked the OP down, so collection chasing has recommenced, which courts will permit.
Professionally have seen very very few CCJs disallowed because of the 6 year rule, UNLESS the client had been in regular written contact with the creditor, and the was able to prove the debt owner had chosen not to pursue. For example a bank where the debtor also hold other accounts (thinking of Barclays)
(Thought it would be of interest to know when the OP was tracked down again.)

Does this sound about right?

If this is about right then, the CCJ is may well be live and chaseable as an unsecured debt, especially if the OP didn't notify the addresses!.

Tim

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

The CCJ was secured via the charge.
70% of the CCJ was paid off, thus retuning 30% of the CCJ to unsecured.
Wilkin Chapmans are now chasing the outstanding 30% of the CCJ.

The Charge is now irrelevant is it not?

It is, the remainder of the CCJ has reverted back to being unsecured.

Professionally have seen very very few CCJs disallowed because of the 6 year rule, UNLESS the client had been in regular written contact with the creditor, and the was able to prove the debt owner had chosen not to pursue. For example a bank where the debtor also hold other accounts (thinking of Barclays)
(Thought it would be of interest to know when the OP was tracked down again.)

Does this sound about right?

If this is about right then, the CCJ is may well be live and chaseable as an unsecured debt, especially if the OP didn't notify the addresses!.

The CCJ may be "chaseable" but probably not enforceable if Arrow decided to apply to the court for an AoE or a warrant to send bailiffs.

[siferetto]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

The CCJ may be "chaseable" but probably not enforceable if Arrow decided to apply to the court for an AoE or a warrant to send bailiffs.

Before they can do anything, Arrow will have to provide evidence that the CCJ was been re-assigned to them through a Court application.

[blondel22]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

Searching on google says that there should be a deed of assignment over the ccj for someone else to enforce it???

[siferetto]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

Searching on google says that there should be a deed of assignment over the ccj for someone else to enforce it???

Correct

[blondel22]

Re: Old CCJ from Egg being chased by Wilkin Chapman

Many thanks to everyone who has given advice.I have a better idea of how to procede now:tinysmile_grin_t: