Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

[jona26]

Hi. Am looking for some advice please.

I recently received a fixed penalty from a local Welsh council enforcement officer. I was smoking and without thinking wandered over to an enclosed bus shelter to view the bus timetable.

The officer approached me as I left and issued me with the notice. I was cautioned but he made no additional motes other than those recorded on the form although he was wearing body CCTV.

I am not arguing about whether the offence was committed or not but the officer has not completed all the info on the form. Specifically...

*Date of issue (although date of offence is recorded)
*The section of the legislation under which the notice is issued (although specified elsewhere)
*The amount of the penalty (although again mentioned elsewhere)

Does any of the missing info negate the validity of the notice?
Would the council argue that there is enough detail in other places on the form to support the notice?
Is it worth me contacting the council to appeal? There is no mention of an appeals process other than via challenging in court.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

[MissFM]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

Hi Jona26 and to LB!

Someone will be along soon who can answer your questions.

Out of curiosity - how much is the FPN for?

[jona26]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

Thanks. It's £50 or reduced to £30 for prompt payment. Not so bothered about the amount but I'm just cross with myself for not thinking what I was doing and that the enforcement officer just stood and watched me wander in and straight out again. There wasn't even anyone else in the shelter.

[enquirer]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

You might hit them with a SAR (Subject Access Request) under the Data Protection Act 1998, requiring them to furnish you with a copy of the CCTV footage.

If they can't supply it, a cynical person might then conclude that he had made it all up. Are they on commission or any other form of 'incentive' scheme? A request made under the Freedom of Information Act might prove interesting.

[jona26]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

Thanks for the suggestions Enquirer. I looked like two Environmental Health Officers out of the office for day carrying out an operation rather than uniformed wardens so I doubt they are incentivized

[wales01man]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

where in wales?

[jona26]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

Ryhl (Denbighshire Council)

[wales01man]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

Are they having a crackdown on smoking or is this a rare event ticketing someone very few people seem to have been issued with these tickets across the country

[jona26]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

It's not my local council so I can't say. Was just passing through the area. Looking back though (and trying not to be judgemental or stereotyping) the bus station area in front of the railway station did seem to be a gathering point for some local undesirables so maybe complaints had been made and the council were having a crackdown.

[wales01man]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

The undesirables if caught Smoking would have got a ticket as well?
Maybe best to pay the Penalty or spend a lot of time and effort to try and get rid probably will fail if not paid and you cannot win any appeal it may got to court with expense and time involved Put this down to experience

[IsItRequired]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

This is a joke...Why didnt they just warn you, because you are no doubt a visible working type or your presentable and this enviro officer took advantage of that...any scumbags that day I bet were just warned, be intresting if there is stats you can obtain and then ask why maybe you were fined and not all others...then again the dossers proberbly do not to give the correct details...I mean who the hell are these people to check? As a kid one cocky mate never paid train tickets as he just gave a false name and adress every time, these officers are not the police and cannot check your details, can they? Can they detain you ?

[wales01man]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

The OP broke the Law on Smoking in public places Bus shelters included for which the maximum fine is £200 DO we ignore the Laws we do not agree with ?
They have the chance to take this to appeal or pay their decision .
I can assure you I am anti this law akthough a non smoker it cost us a good part of our sales when it came in and we had a Pub

[jona26]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

I am not denying I was wrong and for the sake of £30 I don't intend to get into a long battle over this. If there was an easy appeals process that didn't involve court I would be tempted to appeal based on the validity of the non-completed fields on the form.

[wales01man]

Re: Fixed Penalty Validty - Smoking In Smoke Free Place

IMO you have made the right decision pay 30 quid its not really worth the bother