Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

[waspie]

Hi all...my first post here.
My story is a bit involved but I will try to set it out so it's not too boring.
December 2011 my daughters social housing house catches fire.
Forensic examiners determine that it is started in storage heater consumer unit on landing.
Daughter and grandson stay at our's.
It's 8 months before she gets back home.Flagship Housing Association state over and over again to their insurers that the house has been given a periodic inspection at change of occupancy.
After months and months of digging it is determined that her house has never been given ANY sort of electrical inspection in 21 years.
Hard, fact based evidence is gathered and presented to the Ombudsman (twice) and it concludes that Flagship have acted 'reasonably' and it should, if not done already, fit a new front door!!!
As her dad I am absolutely incredulous that this is the conclusion.
Any way, is there a route that I can go down to complain to a higher authority??

[leclerc]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

I do not understand why you are going to the Ombudsman about.

There is some info missing here....

Why did she go to the Ombudsman in the first place?

[waspie]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

Hi leclerc..ok..it is involved..but here is some more info....
The fire happened on the 17th December 2011 at 0330...the house was uninhabitable after the fire.
On the 9th January 2012 Flagship and their insurers knew what caused the fire.
The consumer unit was installed in 2002...that and the wiring should have been inspected in 2007...that was never done.
My daughter moved in October 2005. It was inferred by Flagship that the house had had an Electrical Periodic Inspection.....lies.
Flagship told their insurers over and over and over again that this was the case...and so the Insurance Company refused outright to entertain any compensation claim from my daughter.
She had been diagnosed with PTSD.
81 days after the fire, the first clean up started...smoke damaged property was removed, a cold water wash was carried out and a part rewire was carried out.
After about 6 months of what I would describe inactivity work was progressed.
After quite a fight I managed to prove that flagship had been disingenuous and had not in fact carried out ANY electrical inspections on this house at all and had ridden rough shod over the
Landlord and Tenant Act 1985. Coupled with other complaints we went through the complaints procedure with Flagship but to be honest they treated our family with disdain.
We complained to the Ombudsman but to be down right basic it was a futile journey. They seem to think that telling lies upon lies is " reasonable behavior"
They found Flagship had not committed any flouting of the L & T act and that was that.

So as a dad I want to protest about this incredulous decision.....and how to go about it before any one esle in a Flagship house gets injured or dies!!!

[leclerc]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

What exactly has been the issue for your daughter?

Flagship failed in their duty of care and there was a fire. Was your daughter's possessions insured, since I assume that Flagship insured the house?

[waspie]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

You ask the same question as Flagship did and no she had no insurance. It was not a requirement of her contract and as proven by the forensic examination the cause was faulty electrical equipment that had not been maintained.
The issue has been that Flagship in order to block their insurance company from offering any compensation to my daughter issued false and misleading information as to what they had done in maintaining the house as regards electrical safety.
So with 21,000 houses in their portfolio the issue was how many other houses were a ticking time bomb that could catch fire??
If she had caused the fire in any way then she would not have a leg to stand on.....end of....BUT THAT WAS NOT THE CASE.

[leclerc]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

You ask the same question as Flagship did and no she had no insurance.
It was not a requirement of her contract and as proven by the forensic examination the cause was faulty electrical equipment that had not been maintained.
You will not like my response but whether it was a requirement of the contract or not she had the choice to get insurance or not get insurance. She chose not to. I would add that I live in a shared house and don't have contents insurance so if there was a fire here then I would be up a creek without a paddle.
The issue has been that Flagship in order to block their insurance company from offering any compensation to my daughter issued false and misleading information as to what they had done in maintaining the house as regards electrical safety.
Why would they have to offer your daughter compensation for the fire? Ultimately the house was insured in the event of a fire so that is their responsibility in part. I suspect that the insurance company would be interested on the electrical safety issue since they would have paid out on insurance that they should not have done due to the housing associations failure to maintain electrical safety.
So with 21,000 houses in their portfolio the issue was how many other houses were a ticking time bomb that could catch fire??
If she had caused the fire in any way then she would not have a leg to stand on.....end of....BUT THAT WAS NOT THE CASE.

Ok, I still do not see what case she has against them for any compensation since she did not have contents insurance The 21,000 other houses in their portfolio is none of your concern to be honest with you but I do want to ask another question. Did you ever seek to write a letter to the head of the Housing Association such as the Chief Executive of Flagship simply on the basis that their failure COULD have lead to the death of your daughter and you are concerned that perhaps there is a management issue in relation to the homes dealt with in the area that your daughter lives in because of this major failing of Flagship?

[leclerc]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

She might have a case to sue the company: http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/electrical_safety.htm

I was looking through this one because I was wondering what they should do and what you could do as well.

[waspie]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

Let me get this insurance thing out of the way...............Flagship's insurers Zurich eventually paid my daughter over £3000 for lost personal property. THE REASON WHY THE FIRE BEGAN WAS POORLY MAINTAINED ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT THAT HAD NOT BEEN SAFETY INSPECTED FOR 9 YEARS. YET FLAGSHIP INSISTED THE HOUSE HAD BEEN INSPECTED ON THE CHANGE OF OCCUPANCY. THIS WAS PROVED TO BE UTTER FABRICATION.
The link you sent explains in very simple terms that electrical safety is covered by the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 and other statutes.
The Ombudsman explained that it was their duty to make sure the association acted 'reasonably'.....well if putting in to written replies to us and their insurance company a complete pack of lies, that in my humble opinion is not acting with reason.
If 81 days from the fire to the start of repairs is reasonable I'm a monkeys uncle. Their service manager stated in an e-mail that he was waiting for UKpn to get back to him about the reinstating of electric supply ( it had been cut off at the pole).
When I inquired the next day to UKpn they had never had a request to resupply the house or anything!! More lies. It was stated in the insurers report that a special sealing paint (zinsser...£70/ litre) was to used to seal the residue smoke left on the walls and ceilings...we happened to call round on a Saturday morning and found the special paint was Dulux Trade undercoat mixed with turps...reasonable??

The safety question is exactly why we went on to complain yet the ombudsman has failed to do or say anything to alleviate our concerns. I think they have been bamboozled by Installation Certificates like they tried with us!! I am not happy with the conclusion of the ombudsman investigation and wish to take the matter further....the question I pose is who do I take it to??

[leclerc]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

The Health and Safety Executive is who you put the question to.

I would add that in regards of complaints made, did you get written confirmation from UKpn rather than verbal confirmation?

What exactly did the Ombudsman state because generally they go on what is fair and reasonable. Hang on a bit cos I think I will try and get someone who might be slightly better on some of the questions that I am myself.

[waspie]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

Yes i did get an e-mail confirming that no contact had been made in regards to the electric re supply.
That is my point entirely.....If the Ombudsman is there to ascertain if somebody has acted reasonably then to tell a pack of lies is not in my opinion acting reasonably.
Their insurers were adamant that their ' clients ' had done all in their power to make the house safe for occupancy insisting that a Periodic Inspection had been done. They told the claim manager at Zurich that because they had
Domestic Installation certificates that proved the house had been tested.
We wrote to NICEIC who supplied hard copies of domestic installation certificates but with the reverse pages as well which Flagship conveniently forgot to supply to Zurich. The reverse of the certificates quite clearly and categorically
state that domestic installation certificates are not to used as a periodic inspection report as they perform different functions entirely....and of course Flagship could not produce any Periodic Inspection Reports AT ALL even though the
house had been on their books for 21 years!
As regards the chief officer....another tale...he was telling tenants who wanted to do mutual exchanges that they would have to pay for an 'Electric Safety Check' and that It was required 'by law'.
He never replied to us as to what this 'electric safety check' was!!
In the end it got frosty because I started to accuse them of telling lies to us....they then put up the 'we've dealt with your complaint go to the Ombudsman if you wish'...that's what we then did.

[waspie]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

Can anyone suggest who I write to?

[enaid]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

The Housing Ombudsman Service

You can complain about housing associations to the Housing Ombudsman Service. The Ombudsman can’t usually help you until you have gone through the housing association’s complaints procedure, and it can’t usually help you if you have a court case about your complaint.
The Ombudsman will first decide whether it can investigate your complaint. If the rules allow it to, it will investigate. The Ombudsman may ask you questions as well as the housing association. The Ombudsman will then come to a decision. If the Ombudsman upholds your complaint, it could recommend that the housing association treat you properly and possibly to pay you compensation.
You can get more information from the Housing Ombudsman Service website.
If you are not happy with the Ombudsman’s decision, you may be able to usealternative dispute resolution (ADR) or go to court.

[MissFM]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

Hello Waspie

Your situation is outrageously unfair and infuriating IMVHO.

The only route (other than those suggested above and the ones you have pursued) of which I can think is to go to the fraud investigation department of the insurance company with your evidence - although this may be an own goal in that they may take a dim view of criminal negligence on the part of the landlord and refuse further payment (or does the landlord's insurance include negligence?).

This is a conumdrum because your daughter seems on the face of it to have been horribly wronged and yet have little redress in law.

[waspie]

Re: Housing Ombudsman...who do you complain to?

Hi MissFM
Thanks for your interest.....
It is very frustrating.
The Ombudsman is portrayed as the bees knees but to me it seems it takes the easy route with complicated complaints. Ours revolved around Periodic Inspections which the Housing Association admitted that it only started doing in
2010/2011....I give 2 dates as one director gave one and another gave a different one as to when the Association started doing them!! It seemed that we had opened a hornets nest with the non existence safety inspections.
To be honest I think the Ombudsman failed to investigate deeply enough into the electrical side of our complaint and took the easy route. Indeed our last correspondence from a Resolution Manger at the Ombudsman service stated that she had not addressed every issue that we raised..!!!
I have taken your advice and written to the Association's insurers but I doubt that will produce an admission from them that ' yes our client did at the start tell us fibs....'
leclerc has suggest writing to the HSE...but looking at their website it does not appear that the ordinary bloke on the street can make a complaint about social housing?
I have written to Mark Prisk MP the Housing Minister...I have also written twice to my local MP to no avail. He is a health something or other so obviously too busy to get involved with something that could save lives!!
I think as a last resort I may go to the local radio station and see if they are interested in opening this can of worms.
What I would like as the outcome of our distress is that Electric Installations are regulated just like Gas....ie safety Inspected EVERY 5 Years and Certificated as such. This i am 100% sure would have stopped the fire at my daughters. Saved her from the illness and nightmares......instead for 8 months all we got from Flagship was...." periodic inspections are not law so we don't have to do them". I would'nt live in a Flagship house if you paid me.