Unenforceable Loan Agreement Welcome/MKRR problem

[Guest]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

Here, I complained about lack of skill in recent letters from Welcome, MKRR and MKDP LLP

[Guest]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

me thinks MKRR have until wednesday 13 june to comply with the cca request

The original legislation is here [Definition of 'Prescribed period' in The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 = "12 working days"]

..and here: [creditor "shall give" the documents "within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing" in The Consumer Credit Act 1974]

Therefore, the creditor SHALL GIVE documents WITHIN 12 WORKING DAYS AFTER RECEIVING A REQUEST in writing.

[miliitant]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

the extra two days is given for postal sevice

so the dca has 12 days from receipt to locate the agreement then a further 2 days to deliver the agreement to you as defined by the interpretations act 1978

[miliitant]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

the times scales have not been simplified as you state, it is due to things like the carey judgement and the rankins

[miliitant]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

77.
— (1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within
the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the
debtor and payment of a fee of
[F256£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the
executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together
with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the
information to which it is practicable for him to refer,
—
the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;
the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the
debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that
total sum, with the date when each became due; and
the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the
debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the
date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.
(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to
ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)(c), he shall be taken
to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the
basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to
—
an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable
by the debtor, or
a request made less than one month after a previous request under
that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.
(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)
—
he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the
agreement;

[Guest]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

the times scales have not been simplified as you state, it is due to things like the carey judgement and the rankins

Yes, they have. Read #105 fully.

[Guest]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

may i ask where you got thr 12 WORKING DAYS FROM
i have the cca 1974 in fromt of me now and i cant see it under s.77 to s,79

See #105.

[Guest]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

the extra two days is given for postal sevice

It's "shall give...within 12 working days of receipt". See #105.

so the dca has 12 days from receipt to locate the agreement then a further 2 days to deliver the agreement to you as defined by the interpretations act 1978

NO - read #105.

[Guest]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

Apologies miliitant on 'correcting' you on FSCS earlier, which you stated correctly.

[Celestine]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

Christian

I think Militant is offline for a few days, I'm sure he will be back shortly.

Please keep us updated of recent events.

Cel

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

I think if you are able to get advice and help formthe Law Centre that would be very valuable.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

You only 'owe' what is owed under a fair and due agreement with all statutory protection eg UCTA complied with. You don't necesssarily 'owe' everythinbg a creditor / DCA says you 'owe' them - whatever your own financila circumstances

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

Hi Christian,

I see PuffRose and Militant (...or was is Chihuahua...? LOL !!!) have been helping you here. I have 'scanned through' this thread quickly to try and make some useful comments for you from my limited experience. We're not used to your distinctive style of posting here, my friend !!! I mean that in the kindest sense, though. Going back over previous posts and editing them extensively, deleting them, and referring to later posts certainly had me confused !!! But when you mentioned that you were blessed with high intelligence but cursed with low memory retention, I realised this was probably the best way for you to work - so it's up to us here to adjust to that !!! I'm one of those 'plodders' that has to work linearly - "Start at the beginning. Keep going until you get to the end. Then stop."

With mis-sold Insurance, we have a problem in that we often have very little evidence to show that it was mis-sold (or even sold !!!) in the first place. It then becomes our word against theirs. BUT - the FSA Handbook on PPI Redress contained within PS 10/12 states:

DISP APP 3.2.2 The firm should seek to establish the true substance of the complaint, rather than taking a narrow interpretation of the issues raised, and should not focus solely on the specific expression of the complaint. This is likely to require an approach to complaint handling that seeks to clarify the nature of the complaint.

DISP APP 3.2.7 The firm should consider all of its sales of payment protection contracts to the complainant in respect of re-financed loans that were rolled up into the loan covered by the payment protection contract that is the subject of the complaint. The firm should consider the cumulative financial impact on the complainant of any previous breaches or failings in those sales.

DISP APP 3.3.1 Where a complaint is made, the firm should assess the complaint fairly, giving appropriate weight and balanced consideration to all available evidence, including what the complainant says and other information about the sale that the firm identifies. The firm is not expected automatically to assume that there has been a breach or failing.

DISP APP 3.3.2 The firm should not rely solely on the detail within the wording of a policy's terms and conditions to reject what a complainant recalls was said during the sale.

DISP APP 3.3.3 The firm should recognise that oral evidence may be sufficient evidence and not dismiss evidence from the complainant solely because it is not supported by documentary proof. The firm should take account of a complainant's limited ability fully to articulate his complaint or to explain his actions or decisions made at the time of the sale.

DISP APP 3.3.4 Where the complainant's account of events conflicts with the firm's own records or leaves doubt, the firm should assess the reliability of the complainant's account fairly and in good faith. The firm should make all reasonable efforts (including by contact with the complainant where necessary) to clarify ambiguous issues or conflicts of evidence before making any finding against the complainant.

DISP APP 3.3.5 The firm should not reject a complainant's account of events solely on the basis that the complainant signed documentation relevant to the purchase of the policy.

DISP APP 3.3.9 In determining a particular complaint, the firm should (unless there are reasons not to because of the quality and plausibility of the respective evidence) give more weight to any specific evidence of what happened during the sale (including any relevant documentation and oral testimony) than to general evidence of selling practices at the time (such as training, instructions or sales scripts or relevant audit or compliance reports on those practices).

The trend with PPI claims seems to be that the lender will reply " I have checked thoroughly, and I can find no evidence of mis-selling." And of course they won't - they destroyed whatever evidence there was. That's why we need our own - but we need to give them as much rope as they require in order to hang themselves. We have to play at being 'thick.' No problem for me, but infuriating for you, I'm sure !!! Did you ever see those old Peter Falk 'Columbo' detective stories ? That line "Oh.....just one more thing......" was always the killer punch.

I think Puff & Militant have now got the CCA side of things sorted. With enforceability, the onus of proof is upon the LENDER, as I think has now been established. A further weapon I recently came across in a post by Labman is this:

This is a formal request under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008.

I require your organisation to provide written confirmation that states clearly whether you currently hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement, or whether you do not hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement pertaining to myself.

For the avoidance of doubt, an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement is just that; not an application for credit and not a reconstructed or microfiched document from other sources.

Please note that until such times as a legally enforceable, original Consumer Credit Agreement can be produced and a copy sent to me by return, then this letter is not an acknowledgement of debt.

Please also note that failure to provide a direct answer to this request will be brought before the court, should you decide to defy the content of this letter and instruct solicitors to pursue enforcement action regardless.

Yours faithfully

It puts them on notice that you are more ready to see them in court than they are, I reckon. This needs a Proof of Posting certificate at the very least. A 'Signed For' would be better, but not always effective with bulk mail deliveries.

I hope I've helped a little in your quest, Christian - and I hope I haven't insulted you, as that has not been my intention - but is often the result, I beg to report !!!

BTW, look out for further posts by Springer. I have a feeling they may be worth waiting for.

[Guest]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

To Celestine

"I think Militant is offline for a few days, I'm sure he will be back shortly"

Ahhhhhhhhh - no doubt that'll be the Celestine Prophecy!!!!!!!!!!
Boom boom!!!!!!!! Hee hee heeeeeeeeeeee - thankyou x

[Guest]

Re: Hello from Christian - Welcome/MKRR problem

To SpringerSpaniel

Thankyou + thankyou.
I especially like the brown and white variety.