Needing DMP Advice

[JammyDodger41]

Hi Everyone, new today !

I am looking for some help re DMPs ,whether to self manage or use CCCs. I have spoken with them but am finding some of their information slightly misleading, or it differs dependant on who I speak to . I have just read Crispy Bacons guide to a Self Managed DMP, and am considering that route.

I am a little pushed for time now, but will be posting a very lengthy blurb later on !

[Guest]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

Hi Everyone, new today !

I am looking for some help re DMPs ,whether to self manage or use CCCs. I have spoken with them but am finding some of their information slightly misleading, or it differs dependant on who I speak to . I have just read Crispy Bacons guide to a Self Managed DMP, and am considering that route.

I am a little pushed for time now, but will be posting a very lengthy blurb later on !

I have not dealt withh cccs but i can reccomend Payplan, personally i would use one of the free companies to at least get you DMP off the ground, they will do all the leg work for you.
A note of caution they will try and persuade you into a IVA, this may be suitable, but make your own mind up which way to go, dont let them pressure you.

Peter

[JammyDodger41]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

Thankyou , amazingly enough despite debts of £90,000 ish and a DMP that they say will take 31 years to pay off, an IVA has never entered into any conversation with them, which I was surprised at. We are confident we can crack this though so we are happy with the DMP. My questions though are this:-

. When I originally spoke with CCCS, I did include everything incl a huge huge bank loan we had been pressured into by the bank to amalgamate Business Overdrafts. This has just under 9 years left to run and is over £30,000. When the I&E was worked out with CCCS assuming all creditors froze interest the term was 31 years and 9 months !! Thats scary stuff ! When speaking with our accountant despite the loan being a business debt ( business was a partnership until Jan 2010),it is in our personal names, but we think we could pay this from our business therefore clearing in 9 years and having more money available left in our I&E CCCS budget to pay the other 6 creditors. When the figures were re jigged, everyone would be paid ( assuming interest frozen with the other 6 creditors who would be included on the DMP) in 9 years also. A family member has also offered to meet the repayments on the loan and also possibly pay off in full for us. I have called CCCS and asked them to take the Loan off of our DMP explaining all circumstances and the offer to pay if necessary by a family member but they refuse to take it off. They say that if he is offering this money, it must be divvied up with all creditors something we / he dont want to do ( the loan has the threat of a 2nd charge being put on the house etc) We may not take him up on the offer anyway would rather not but the accoutnant thinks it can be paid from the business if not therefore I am not too happy with CCCS refusing for this loan to be taken off of list of creditors. Crispy Bacon does state in his post that if we Self manage, that we can choose who to include. Is this the case ? Oh and originally when we discussed the loan with CCCS they said they had to be included in the list but we could then choose to overpay them, but then they back tracked and said we couldnt ,that any overpayments had to be divvied up also as the creditors would get jealous if they could see that one person was getting more than the others, even if it was a family member paying for us and not us. I understnad this, but do the creditors actually have access to this information, exactly who we owe what to and how much we are paying them each month ? Are they provided with a list of this by CCCS ?

. Secondly if we decide to self manage, I had already sent letters to the 6 creditors ( not the loan ones) with a token payment advising them we are seeking advise with CCCS and inlcuding the plan number) The same day I was intending signing the CCCS paperwork committing to the 31 years but something stopped me. If we decide to self manage can we go back on the letters we have sent and ask them to disregard them and that we are self managing ?

. Or, could we go to PayPlan , not mention the loan, let the Business pay it ,or our family member. Would Payplan or any of the other creditors have any way of knowing that we still have the loan ?

Sorry for the really long post, and please dont think that we are trying to be awkward here, , its just that 31 years is so scary. We are really very very committed to paying this all off and are confident we will be able to make more payments towards these debts and possible Full and Final Settlements, but as the Loan was the Businness I am loathed to include it when we could be shot of it in 9 years if not sooner.

Thankyou so much to whoever is brave enough to take on the answering of my questions and I hope my post isnt too confusing!!

[Guest]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

YI
I can’t really see cccs ‘s problem, if the money is coming from a third party it really has nothing to do with them. It is not coming out of your budget if someone wantsto pay a particular debt i don’t see how that would alter the position regarding your I and e.
They would have to re jig it to give the other creditors a larger pro rata payment without the debtor that is paid off but that is all.
It is not your decision to pay off just one creditor it is your benefactors, are you supposed to refuse it? daft.!
I know payplan will take over the DMP but you will have to start from scratch with them possibly as well then you could leave out the paid up loan.
Peter

[labman]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

Hi,

Great to see you tackling your debt. Peter is correct in what he says about Payplan that you have to start right from the beginning again.

If you really want to have more control over your DMP, but don't feel you want to go the whole hog of trying to manage everything yourself, have you considered CASHflow?

CASHflow - Login

This is excellent and getting some incredibly positive feedback from creditors and debtors alike.

You will be aware, if you've been with CCCS, of the Common Financial Statement (CFS) - it's the long Assets, Income, Expenditure and Debt form that you complete with them.

CASHflow uses a similar IE form which you complete yourselves, then get a licensed person (there's people on here licensed to sign them off) to sign the IE off for you.

As it has been signed off by a licensed person the creditors are supposed to (and usually do) treat it the same as a CFS, which means it has the backing of all the OFT Guidance, the Lending Code etc... Thee is vast pressure on creditors to accept it, and if they don't, they are obliged to give you a very good reason.

Looking at your situation, this may prove to be a good option.

[JammyDodger41]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

Thankyou Peter and Labman. Do either of you know if the creditors are all told by CCS or have access to our information enabling them to see exactly who we owe money to, how much and how much we are paying them ? I'm just intrigued as CCCS gave me the impression that they did but I would have thought with Data Protection etc they wouldnt allowed that information, but then I am definately no expert so am probably very wrong !

Labman I have never heard of CASHflow, so I will take a look at it this evening. It sounds very interesting, thankyou. As a brief background, we were self employed, all the debts were run up due to irregular payments to us by our clients or no payments at all, basically ended up robbing Peter to pay Paul. We havent used credit for 2 years now so know that we can now manage without it, but with debts this huge obviously things are still difficult. Business is now Ltd so we employed by it and take a salary ( again still irregular for the same reasons, but Business is running much more smoothly) I dont know if by knowing a bit of the background you might know if CASHflow is more suited to us ? Just to clarify also, we have not entered into any agreement with CCCS. The I&E is complete and I have all of the paperwork ,signed but I am unable to make myself put it in the post to them to get the ball rolling. I think I have too many unanswered questions still. We have not decided whether to accept the money offered to us yet . I would prefer not to, personal pride I think ! Can anybody see any reason why the loan , (Business debt) but in our personal names needs to be taken into account with the DMP ?

I'm sorry for all the questions !

[labman]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

Would the business debt show up on a credit search? IE - if you get a copy of your Credit Reference File, is the business shown there?

Also, when you say it is a limited company, but personal debt, these two don't sit hand in glove with my understanding of limited liability. I thought if the debt was business debt, and the company is a limited company, then any business debt would be subject to this limited liability?

If you could answer these two questions for me, I can probably give you a way forward.

[JammyDodger41]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

Sorry I'm probably confusing things. The Business Debt ( overdrafts) were run up when the Company was a Partnership, although it was the business bank account it was in our personal names ,as advised to do when the business was started 13 years ago by the bank . They said it woudl save us paying Business banking Charges. The bank called in the overdrafts and asked us to repay £15000 in 3 months which we were unable to do,so they converted it into a huge loan over 10 years. We have paid it every month . The Accountant seemed to think we could continue to pay this from the Ltd Business ( I dont know if she would then show this amount as Dividends or not ) I dont have enough understanding of how this all works , and then we would only need to include the Credit cards in the DMP. In answer to your question the Debt would show up in a Credit search of our personal names but not of the Business.

Has this helped at all ?!

[Guest]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

HI Jammy ( my fave biscuit by the way)

As i said i dont know about cccs but payplan dont do a credit search or they didn't on the ones i have been involved in.

Totally understand your reluctance to take the first step, however once you have done it you will feel so much better.
I think perhaps you should alter your perspective if you don’t mind me saying, the point of the DMP is to make sure that you can live within your means. Your first priority must be to ensure that you have enough money to live on , that means that all expenses that you will have to pay must be included in your calculation If you think that you may have to pay this debt then include it in your plan it will not alter the amount you require to live on that is fixed, all it will change is the amount that is paid out to the individual creditors, if at a later date the business loan is paid off then the rest of the creditors will have a bigger chunk of the cake, if the DMP company won’t do it then change your DMP company, you are in control that is the beauty of a DMP as opposed to a IVA.
In my opinion the important thing is to get the show on the road, the first step is always the hardest and sometimes we look for excuses to not take it. Been there got the tee shirt.
Peter

[labman]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

I would check with your accountant. I would have thought there were potentially two options here. One would be for the Limited Company to take out a usiness loan to repay the other, so it does become a proper business loan.

The other would be to do as your account is suggesting, leave it off - it is easily explained as a business loan paid out of the business and not your personal disposable income (this is the critical thing in a DMP that the loan is not shown to be coming from your disposable income, but from the business). That way there should not be a problem.

The CASHflow option would definitly give you most control over this, and I'm sure you'll find someone who can sign it off.

[JammyDodger41]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

HI Jammy ( my fave biscuit by the way)

As i said i dont know about cccs but payplan dont do a credit search or they didn't on the ones i have been involved in.

Totally understand your reluctance to take the first step, however once you have done it you will feel so much better.
I think perhaps you should alter your perspective if you don’t mind me saying, the point of the DMP is to make sure that you can live within your means. Your first priority must be to ensure that you have enough money to live on , that means that all expenses that you will have to pay must be included in your calculation If you think that you may have to pay this debt then include it in your plan it will not alter the amount you require to live on that is fixed, all it will change is the amount that is paid out to the individual creditors, if at a later date the business loan is paid off then the rest of the creditors will have a bigger chunk of the cake, if the DMP company won’t do it then change your DMP company, you are in control that is the beauty of a DMP as opposed to a IVA.
In my opinion the important thing is to get the show on the road, the first step is always the hardest and sometimes we look for excuses to not take it. Been there got the tee shirt.
Peter

Yes I totally agree with all you have said. We have been muddling along for years, but the stress and hours we are needing to work to pay everyone are getting too much now, we cant carry on like this. I have spent the last 4 months pouring over different websites, forums etc. We have drastically changed the way we live, we only pay for things in cash and have reigned things in hugely. As I said we have written to the creditors , but I had too many unanswered questions to make that final step by sending the CCCS forms off, and when I called them dependant who I spoke to their advice wasnt entirely consistent. Its much easier though knowing there are plenty of people out there with words of wisdom ! I really appreciate your replies today. I am going to have a read about the CASHFlow LabMan mentioned and will no doubt be back posting on here later tonight !
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I would check with your accountant. I would have thought there were potentially two options here. One would be for the Limited Company to take out a usiness loan to repay the other, so it does become a proper business loan.

The other would be to do as your account is suggesting, leave it off - it is easily explained as a business loan paid out of the business and not your personal disposable income (this is the critical thing in a DMP that the loan is not shown to be coming from your disposable income, but from the business). That way there should not be a problem.

The CASHflow option would definitly give you most control over this, and I'm sure you'll find someone who can sign it off.

I am going to have a read of the CASHflow option as I have no understanding really of what this is and as I said earlier have never heard of it. It does sound interesting. No doubt I will have a load more questions for you later ! Hope you dont mind !

[Guest]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

HI
Perhaps it will help if i tell you about my god daughters experiance.

She had six credit cards two personal loans a mortguage and a secured loan.

So it was about paynig the unsecured loan through a DMC. I sat down with ther and worked on a spreadsheet, simple incomings bills sepperated the ones that you have to pay this left the unsecured loans about 15k.

Rang Pay plan, they took her details and agreed to ring back in a week for an interview asked her if she would have all the infor ready, accont numbers etc. When they rang they asked all the questions we had on the spready, cash in cash out what for etc and came up witha desposable income of £150 which is exactly what we wanted her to come up with.
They then sent all the letters out to the creditors and gave her a web address and pin so she could keep track on the way the plan was progressing in about two weeks the whole thing was up and running.
Two months later she had recieved leters from all her creditors saying they had excepted the plan and stopped interest on the account.
LIke you whe had been faffing about for over six months trying to decide if to take the step, all that interest she has paid that she cold have avoided and more importantly all that worry. Hope i havn't offended, just trying to help.

Peter

[JammyDodger41]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

No of course you havent offended me ! It was great to read your god daughters experience. You make it sound so easy. Its the whole loan thing and 31 years that is making me hesitant although , if am really being honest with myself, if I dont do this the debt will still be there in 30 years time anyway and we will probably be in our graves from working 120 hours a week to try and pay it !! It really is a no brainer isnt it ?!!! I have convinced myself that the loan company wont accept the small amounts we are offering , will continue to add interest then the amounts will increase to an even scarier amount and they will also put a second charge on the house, whereas if we can find a way to pay them, keep them happy and divvy up our remaining money with the other 6 creditors I will be happy !! I think Im going round in circles here !!

I need to do something soon though as I have only made token payments this month to all accept the Bank Loan.

[Guest]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

HI Jammy

HOw do the figures work out if you included the bank loan with your priority payments. Would you have enough monthly disposable income to pay off the rest of the unsecured loans within a reasonable period.

Payplan dont ask for details of your secured loans just the amounts you have to pay, nothing stopping you saying the bank loan was secured and therefore a priority payment from the word go.

Peter

[JammyDodger41]

Re: Needing DMP Advice

HI Jammy

HOw do the figures work out if you included the bank loan with your priority payments. Would you have enough monthly disposable income to pay off the rest of the unsecured loans within a reasonable period.

Payplan dont ask for details of your secured loans just the amounts you have to pay, nothing stopping you saying the bank loan was secured and therefore a priority payment from the word go.

Peter

Yes Peter I think we could do that, and state that the loan is secured . I had assumed we wouldnt be able to say that ( as its not secured, although might as well be, the huge sum of money that it is !!) If we were to do this we could include it in our priority payments, the other unsecured debt should then be cleard in a much quicker amount of time.

Thankyou to both yourself and Labman, you have both given me so much advise over the last few days, I really am very greatful. Hopfeully we will have an an action plan in place early next week ( when I have had a chance to discuss with my OH) . I will let you know what we have decided on.