bailiff fees

[broady11]

thank you for the welcome and this is my first post so if any mistakes and any babbaling i am appologising now.
i recieved a letter from the courts on 7/4/11 to say i owe £172.10 and have time to pay by 13/4/11. i am currently paying a fine by payment card and thought the letter was in conjunction with this fine. i rang fines office and they had no records and said it was with another district court and gave me a number to ring. i tried to ring and got no answer as it was late on a friday and following this we went on holiday. when we got back there was a letter from phillips bailiffs saying i owe £247.10 which is an increase of £75. i rang the court office again to try and set up another payment card but they said they had passed it on to bailiffs and there was a distress warrant against me with the bailiffs. i then recieved a hand delivered letter which was a notice of attendance saying that my balance had gone up £200 to £447.10.

the fine was issued at magistraits court for an unpaid train ticket which i had forgotten about and moved house and all letters were going to my old address. are these bailiff charges legal and do they have to be paid or can i get it back to court? i live with my partner now and she is very worried bout them trying to take her things as nothing in the house belongs to me. i rang the bailiffs and they said that the only way to get it back to court is after they had visited a number of times without result and an arrest warrant would be sent by the court for non payment, and presumably be charged for each visit.
if it were my house i would just ignore them but it is my partners house and her mother comes round after school to look after her daughter and she is worried about them pressuring her mother as she is 70 and also the embarrasment for my partner having to tell her mother not to let the bailiffs in!

[CleverClogs]

Re: bailiff fees

i recieved a letter from the courts on 7/4/11 to say i owe £172.10 and have time to pay by 13/4/11. i am currently paying a fine by payment card and thought the letter was in conjunction with this fine. i rang fines office and they had no records and said it was with another district court and gave me a number to ring. i tried to ring and got no answer as it was late on a friday and following this we went on holiday. when we got back there was a letter from phillips bailiffs saying i owe £247.10 which is an increase of £75. i rang the court office again to try and set up another payment card but they said they had passed it on to bailiffs and there was a distress warrant against me with the bailiffs. i then recieved a hand delivered letter which was a notice of attendance saying that my balance had gone up £200 to £447.10.

Rule 1: Bailiffs may not always be objectively truthful.

the fine was issued at magistraits court for an unpaid train ticket which i had forgotten about and moved house and all letters were going to my old address. are these bailiff charges legal

Of course not! See rule 1.

i live with my partner now and she is very worried bout them trying to take her things as nothing in the house belongs to me.

So don't let the varmints in and park your car 5 to 10 minutes walk away from your residence, lest they levy on that.

A statutory declaration by your partner, to the effect that she owns all the goods and chattels in the house, should prevent the bailiff trying to levy on them.

i rang the bailiffs and they said that the only way to get it back to court is after they had visited a number of times without result and an arrest warrant would be sent by the court for non payment,

See rule 1. Telephone the court as soon as possible, offer to make payments to them and report how the bailiffs are loading up the fines debt with their own, spurious charges.

[charitynjw]

Re: bailiff fees

Hi broady, & welcome.

I'm not a 'bailiff' expert, but I'm sure you will receive a lot of good advice from our more experienced contributors in due course

[Amy]

Re: bailiff fees

Have you read our bailiff guide Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

For certain types of fines for example parking fines, speeding fines and TV licence fines, bailiffs do have the power to break into your home to take your goods even if they have not been into your home before. You must, therefore, treat a Magistrates Court fine as a priority debt because you could be sent to prison if you default on payments and, although very rare, this does happen.

For this reason it is no longer safe to try to avoid bailiffs coming into your home by refusing to let them in for the collection of the fines mentioned above.

You should ask the court when the warrant was issued because it only has a life of 180 days.

Have you asked the bailiff for a breakdown of these fees? If not, you should.

[Mrs James]

Re: bailiff fees

Hi broady11,

Having dealt with Philips myself it looks like the first £75 added is what they charge for an Admin fee and the £200 added is an attendence fee that they add for a first visit. Are you certain that the letter you received where the amount went up by £200 was hand delivered?

[CleverClogs]

Re: bailiff fees

For certain types of fines for example parking fines, speeding fines and TV licence fines, bailiffs do have the power to break into your home to take your goods even if they have not been into your home before. You must, therefore, treat a Magistrates Court fine as a priority debt because you could be sent to prison if you default on payments and, although very rare, this does happen.

After a bit of digging into the law - following which, one can readily appreciate why the making of laws has been likened to the making of sausages - I found Schedule 4A of the Magistrates Courts Act 1980:

3.

Entry to levy distress

(1) An authorised officer may enter and search any premises for the purpose of executing a warrant of distress issued under section 76 of this Act for default in paying a sum adjudged to be paid by a conviction.

(2) The power may be exercised only to the extent that it is reasonably required for that purpose.

If the approved oaf or enforcement officer were to be presented with a copy of a statutory declaration that none of the goods and chattels within the dwelling house belonged to the debtor, I believe that the enforcement officer would no longer have any reasonable grounds to force an entry or to conduct any search for goods on which to levy.

[Amy]

Re: bailiff fees

It is important to make the distinction between bailiffs acting on behalf of a magistrates' court and any other type of court because the bailiffs have differing powers. In the case of council tax debt, for example, the bailiffs will lie and say they have the power to force entry which is simply not true, unless they have previously gained peaceful entry to the property.

Applying blanket advice such as 'don't let them in' might not be correct, as in this case.

A bailiff would need to apply to the court for a warrant to enter the premises forcibly. This is very, very rare - but as per the bailiff guide, it is possible and people should be aware of it.

As for the statutory declaration, I agree with you, it is an option, but I would do this once the date of issue of the warrant is known.

[broady11]

Re: bailiff fees

thank you for all your advice guys and girls. I have paid the fine direct to the court over the weekend and i shall ring them this week to make sure this is will be all i have to do.
i also e-mailed the bailiffs asking them to explain the fees and to try to get the agents name who hand delivered the letter to try and check if they were certified, but philips said they only assign their agents a number to identify them and could not disclose their name due to data protection.
the £200 increase was for the visit at which the hand delivered letter arrived.

does anybody know if you pay the fine direct to the court, whether that will be the end or will bailiffs keep hassling as they do?

[CleverClogs]

Re: bailiff fees

thank you for all your advice guys and girls. I have paid the fine direct to the court over the weekend and i shall ring them this week to make sure this is will be all i have to do.
i also e-mailed the bailiffs asking them to explain the fees and to try to get the agents name who hand delivered the letter to try and check if they were certified, but philips said they only assign their agents a number to identify them and could not disclose their name due to data protection.

Rule 1: Bailiffs may not always be objectively truthful.

More concisely, that story is taurorum excrementa, as there is no option for "no publicity" in the public register of certificated bailiffs. Also see this page and this thread at CAG.

the £200 increase was for the visit at which the hand delivered letter arrived.

Though I could be mistaken,I rather believe that the court might consider those charges to be grossly excessive especially as civilian enforcement officers should be employed by the Magistrates Court and hence should not charge anything!

does anybody know if you pay the fine direct to the court, whether that will be the end or will bailiffs keep hassling as they do?

Let me put it this way: bailiffs generally work on the basis of never give a sucker an even break.

The fine has been paid so any bailiff fees will now just be a civil debt, but the bailiff will probably try to pretend it isn't so. If they do, report them to the court.

[Amy]

Re: bailiff fees

Though I could be mistaken,I rather believe that the court might consider those charges to be grossly excessive especially as civilian enforcement officers should be employed by the Magistrates Court and hence should not charge anything!

You are correct, you are mistaken. Philips bailiffs are by definition employed by Philips, they are not employed by the court. They are certificated because they are not court employees.

Therefore, as certificated bailiffs, they are perfectly entitled to charge legitimate fees.

[CleverClogs]

Re: bailiff fees

Philips bailiffs are by definition employed by Philips, they are not employed by the court. They are certificated because they are not court employees.

Therefore, as certificated bailiffs, they are perfectly entitled to charge legitimate fees.

Are you suggesting that the fees demanded by Philips - £75 administration and £200 "attendance fee" - are legitimate?

Civilian enforcement officers, who should be doing this work rather than some certificated spivs, are employed by the court and do not charge the debtor for their services.

Why, then, should someone have to pay considerably more just because some courts choose to use certificated bailiffs rather than their own civilian enforcement officers? Where is the justice in that?

[Amy]

Re: bailiff fees

Civilian enforcement officers, who should be doing this work rather than some certificated spivs, are employed by the court and do not charge the debtor for their services.

Why, then, should someone have to pay considerably more just because some courts choose to use certificated bailiffs rather than their own civilian enforcement officers? Where is the justice in that?

CEOs do not enforce distress warrants, that is why.