Hello

[PentLake]

Re: Hello

Excellent AngryCat. I am ploughing my way through it to give me the feel and history of it in total context. ... reached 2.31 so far.

I find so much is relevant (good or bad?) and I intend to get it all under my belt through to the end and make pertinant notes relating to my bone of contention (good/bad)...

I want sight of a CCAgreement document that is alleged that I/we? actually signed. Simple as that.

I have NEVER entered into any paper or verbal agreement, etc, whatever, on the back of unsolicited spam mail.

I'm just about to jump and have a quick peek at 5 to see what you're referring to and let my mind be coloured with 5 in mind when I go back.
I'm not in a hurry given what you've posted. My next decision has to be right.
It is so appreciated and a massive signpost. Thank you.

I'm still looking from anything else from anyone to help me build my knowledge. I need you all so much. Thank you.

[PentLake]

Re: Hello

Must report good piece of news.
Received SAR back from Link.

In amongst all the stuff, peeping out from the rear was a CCA copy + t&c.
All signed and mine. Link thread is now dead.
Why couldn't they have sent that over 100 days ago? Were they hoping I would take them back to Court? Not that silly.

(they did add £5 admin fee to acct on top of the £10 I sent them)
Bless them... they're a bit short....

Thank you Amethyst for that advice.

Just the Halifax CCA request to go now. Ongoing. Bigger fight... will update.

(back to my OFT link reading...)

[PentLake]

Re: Hello

My final summary having studied the OFT document in tandem with the CCA 1974 Act and using a degree of common sense at any legal action.

We sign a legally binding agreement, CCA, which is then lost or thrown away as it suits the Owner or Creditor because it actually means nothing anymore.
It doesn't have to be seen anymore.

Tell me I'm wrong? ... and then clearly prove it. I don't believe anyone can.

The CCA pays lip service to some T&C's and never has to be produced again, especially in Court as visual proof that an agreement was signed and made between 2 or more parties.
Courts are not interested in a legal document obviously.

The T&C's can be anything that was or is in force at any particular year or time as it suits the Owner or Creditor. 'Reconstituted' and becomiing a 'true' copy in Law.

And the banks would never do anything wrong, and even if they did there's nothing you can do about it. They'll just change the rules.. and Laws.. to suit.

That was the answer I was looking for. Simple as that.

Amethysts OFT document link opened my eyes to what deep down I suspected. Of course.. to many people, I must be wrong?

...

[Angry Cat]

Re: Hello

The link provided was the draft guidance re: sections 77, 78 & 79.
we await the final (OFT) document to be published.

[PentLake]

Re: Hello

Thanks Angry cat. I read that as well. But the summary I posted won't change.
Creditors and owners couldn't afford to let the signed agreement re-appear as a norm, even a Law.

Why isn't there a massive campaign going on to get the CCA the same as most other signed agreements.... Actual, meaningful, valuable, useful.

What if they started throwing away the deeds to our house .... ?

or we started treating our driving licences as a CCA? "sorry, I dont seem to be able to find it Officer.... but according to the Law I don't need it anyway as long as I send a 'true' reconstituted copy of the the highway code"

""And it's no good taking me to Court because the Judge will rule in my favour, Binding precedents have been set""

Being silly? No I'm not. Why is a CCA of no importance after you append your signature to it as proof you have agreed to it/or/and related documents?

Why don't we just sign the documents if that's all that have to be legally produced? .... as you would a Police statement?

A CCA is a farcical meaningless apendage on a financial agrement, in the context we are talking in, and a big fuss is made about it that, at the end of the day, means zero. Good talking point I suppose? The good old days when agreements meant something?

We can't use it or depend on its existance because that's the way the Law currently is.

Why do we put up with that situation?

[Angry Cat]

Re: Hello

Please see the following guidance, issue October 2010:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...it/OFT1272.pdf

[WendyB]

Re: Hello

And why, if it's so important, do we not bother to keep our copy of the CCA which we signed? Save a lot of aggro wouldn't it??

[Angry Cat]

Re: Hello

And why, if it's so important, do we not bother to keep our copy of the CCA which we signed? Save a lot of aggro wouldn't it??

The wise, would have made copies and kept same in a very safe place!

[MIKE770]

Re: Hello

That is if you got a CCA copy after sending off Application Form, lest ye forget why people have not got one, only back in the early-middle 70!s did Access etc get sent out willy nilly to Bank Account customers on pretext of once used that it is the Agreement

[Angry Cat]

Re: Hello

That is if you got a CCA copy after sending off Application Form, lest ye forget why people have not got one, only back in the early-middle 70!s did Access etc get sent out willy nilly to Bank Account customers on pretext of once used that it is the Agreement

Point taken, Mike!

The wise, would have made copies of the original application form plus the T&C's and kept same in a very safe place!

[MIKE770]

Re: Hello

Point taken, Mike!

The wise, would have made copies of the original application form plus the T&C's and kept same in a very safe place!

Yes if we were more knowledgable in those days, as trusting companies was a mistake on more than one occasion, but only later years obtained computer and printer software., a bit late after the horse has bolted.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Hello

Yes if we were more knowledgable in those days, as trusting companies was a mistake on more than one occasion, but only later years obtained computer and printer software., a bit late after the horse has bolted.

Advice: always retain copies of documents.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Hello

The Consumer Credit Act 1974;
The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 and;
The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983,
are quite clear!

[Angry Cat]

Re: Hello

Probably best that I do not spout on.

However, I must say that Part 2 - THE PLAIN ENGLISH CONSUMER GUIDANCE, was very dissapointing.

[PentLake]

Re: Hello

Agreed WendyB and Mike770. Thank you.

I think Angry Cat has repeatedly made a subtle point clearl to me... in their normal progressive way... of how unwise it is not to keep your own copies.

Often re-quoting the scriptures (OFT guidelines), and the obvious, is not always the best way forward, (in my opinion of course...) in getting the CCA recognised as a solid legal document.... which I think was my point...in the context we're talking of.

That context was, in my own case, the fact that NO CCA was signed EVER!
After receieving several spam mails that I ignored and trashed, I received an unsolicited credit card. FACT.

That is ONE reason, in the whole world if need be, why a document that is provably signed by both parties in the transaction should be on file and retained regardless of any reason.

Absence of that document takes on a whole new light in Law.
And I know from research I'm not the only one in that position.

Sufficient to say that I had nothing to save... if my original posts have been forgotten.

Learning from history (OFT guidelines) and then, additionally, laying down meaningful stepping stones, one by one, is a way to a better more successful outcome. Far better than reposing in the myopic cul-de-sac luxury of that history.