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PreAction claim against breach of utility contract, further details

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  • PreAction claim against breach of utility contract, further details

    In a case pretty much identical to one already posted back in 2022 (PreAction claim against breach of utility contract - LegalBeagles Forum), and similar to others (e.g. Ultility Bidder + PreAction breach of contract that never even started - LegalBeagles Forum), I have recently been pestered by PreAction over a contract I allegedly signed in December 2019.

    I write this post to provide as many details as possible, in case it helps others in a similar situation. I also seek reassurance that I am doing the right thing.

    PreAction telephoned unexpectedly a few weeks ago, claiming to have tried to send an email which I hadn't received. The lady informed me that I am in default of a signed utility contract that did not proceed and that I am liable for hundreds of pounds. I was a little taken aback as I very much doubted that I would have signed a contract for Gazprom to supply my business and as it was almost 6 years ago I would be unlikely to remember in any case.
    An email came through later in the day with 4 attached documents:
    1) A formal letter from PreAction detailing the case.
    2) A copy of the broker's letter of authority I had signed (it does look like my signature).
    3) A copy of the utility contract that had been signed by an employee of the broker.
    4) A copy of an email that I apparently wrote to confirm that I wished to go ahead with the "updated terms", which detailed only the contracted supplier, contract start and end dates, the meter number, unit rate and standing charge and the supply address.

    There were no terms and conditions supplied with the LOA (2) nor the contract (3). The letter (1) selectively quotes the supposed terms and conditions breached, and then provides a link to a website that shows the full alleged terms and conditions. As tesla6518 has already pointed out, this appears to make the claim legally "unenforceable as there is no reference to the website on the LOA, as required by law". Following the advice on these forums I decided to ignore the email, but recently PreAction telephoned again. I pointed out the lack of terms and conditions provided with the documents but the bullying lady was having none of it. Here is their emailed response (my company and the broker's names have been removed):



    "Following our discussion
    Whilst your comments are noted, they are without legal basis, erroneous and rejected.

    Terms and conditions and causation

    We are concerned that a fundamental issue between the parties has been overlooked.

    For clarity and the avoidance of any doubt, this claim is straightforward, apparent and evidenced.

    There were dealings between two businesses.
    [Business name] instructed [broker] to act on its behalf.
    Evidence by the signed Letter of Authority (attached).

    In accordance with such instructions, [broker] acted on behalf of [business name]. Both parties clearly entered into that commercial relationship seeking profitable benefits.

    Your client entered a contract with [broker] and your client did not (Due to duplicating with the current supplier) honour that contract.
    The liability for your client to make good the commercial loss suffered is clear and not for debate or discussion. The matter here is quantum.

    It is difficult if not impossible to conceive of a position whereby a party (here that is you) can choose to enter into contracts on behalf of the business, only to then wilfully breach such contracts and seek to avoid liability for doing so.

    In the event, that this matter is not resolved through PreAction the role of this company will fall away leaving our client to issue proceedings through a law firm. If that happens so be it. At least the parties have enjoyed the opportunity to set out their positions and question those of the other side.

    The agreement between [broker] and [business name] is evidenced by both the letter of authority and the actions taken by our client in accordance with the instructions given to it.
    The parties dealt on a commercial basis and therefore instructing Our Client to provide services [business name] knew (or is treated as should have known) that these terms and conditions of [broker] governed the relationship.
    Notwithstanding the above, it is trite law to suggest (in a flailing attempt to deny clear liability) that the Letter of Authority and incorporated terms and conditions of our client did not apply or were anything other than accepted; i) in commercial/business-to-business relationships there is no requirement for terms and conditions to be present/provided to the customer for acceptance, the law only requires limited transactions to be set out in writing (for example the sale or purchase of property or a will)
    To suggest the terms and conditions that govern this relationship didn’t constitute a contract is bizarre and will not be entertained again.

    In summary, every element of your defence is misguided, inaccurate and denied.

    We respectfully request you reconsider your position in this matter, or, instruct a qualified legal representative to engage for a sensible transition to resolution.
    We need not remind you that in the event of our client issuing proceedings not only will any potential discounts available through resolution with PreAction disappear but of course your client’s liability will materially increase.

    PreAction remains open to bringing an end to this matter and we invite you to do so now by way of an offer to settle."




    A couple of days later I received a letter from the broker which again quotes the supposed terms and conditions breached, and states that "as the Contract was not fulfilled and in breach, £332.20 plus VAT is now due and owing being the Non-Live Administration Fee agreed upon signature of the agreement." There is then the further threat of County Court proceedings and liability for interest at 8%, plus a statutory collection fee. The letter states that if I believe I "have genuine grounds for contesting the claim, then you must provide a full written reply to PreAction on or before 22nd July 2025" while also inviting me to make the payment of £332.20 + VAT on or before this same date.

    I do not believe I have done anything wrong or breached any terms and conditions and so I would welcome advice on the best approach to take. How do I stop these people causing so much stress. I'm happy to provide full details of all of the correspondence of PreAction and the energy broker if necessary.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Well it seems that Pre-Action have reached a new low. The language used would be most uncommon for a reputable company. Also the fact that Gazprom is a wholly state owned (Russian) energy company I cannot see how they could supply you. They sell wholesale gas to other energy companies. You failed to mention the name of the brokers who it seems are just as unscrupulous. I would inform both of them that you believe they are a scam and you are going to refer the matter to Ofgem. I would then refer your complaint to Ofgem.
    If they follow form they will keep harassing you. so also inform them you will only accept correspondence via postal means. then block their telephone numbers and emails as spam.
    Hope this helps,

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks @tesla6518 for your advice. Since you mention it I'll name and shame the energy broker as Green Energy Advice Bureau, and the terms and conditions that supposedly apply after the event (as linked to from the letter) are here: Terms and Conditions - Green Energy Advice Bureau.

      Comment


      • #4
        Contact Trading Standards via CAB.

        You could consider sending them a Subject Access Request, they have 30 days to respond.

        https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

        See what 'nonsense' they send back. As pointed out, Gazprom are a Russian company, could never have supplied you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Jelly I am sorry I was incorrect in stating Gazprom do not supply energy in the UK. I have since found out that they operated as GazpromNeft. But that leaves another conundrum, how could they supply you when sanctions were placed on them in 2019. Any broker who signed a contract for Gazpromneft could not have guaranteed continuity of suppl or would be breaking the law. I will look into that further.
          PreAction are asking for £332.00 can I ask how they determined that figure.
          Also the person who replied to you stated that you where wrong about the terms and conditions regarding the energy broker. They have in fact supplied you a copy after the fact.
          These should have been provided together with the LoA.
          With regards trading standards. In my quest to assist my best friend I reported PreAction to Trading Standards, The ombudsman and the police Fraudline, none were interested, but this should not deter you from reporting them. It will be a hard slog but in the end they will give up. Do not let it stress you.

          Comment


          • #6
            Gazprom may of supplied it.

            We don't know if they did, as you believe they didn't.

            You need to raise a dispute. Follow the guidance in the link below, crucial to find out how they have come to the £322 or whatever it is.

            Build you case the evidence you have. The way sales are carried out in business to business contracts can be suspect, simply because there is limited protection.

            https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/set-business-energy-contract

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tesla6518 View Post
              Jelly I am sorry I was incorrect in stating Gazprom do not supply energy in the UK. I have since found out that they operated as GazpromNeft. But that leaves another conundrum, how could they supply you when sanctions were placed on them in 2019. Any broker who signed a contract for Gazpromneft could not have guaranteed continuity of suppl or would be breaking the law. I will look into that further.
              PreAction are asking for £332.00 can I ask how they determined that figure.
              Also the person who replied to you stated that you where wrong about the terms and conditions regarding the energy broker. They have in fact supplied you a copy after the fact.
              These should have been provided together with the LoA.
              With regards trading standards. In my quest to assist my best friend I reported PreAction to Trading Standards, The ombudsman and the police Fraudline, none were interested, but this should not deter you from reporting them. It will be a hard slog but in the end they will give up. Do not let it stress you.

              The figure of £332 is derived from the spurious terms and conditions, as taken from the website: "4.8 If the Contract with the Supplier fails to go live or is cancelled and the Customer subsequently
              decides to not proceed with the Contract to the Supplier in respect of which GEAB has performed the Procurement Service and the Switching Service. Reasons may include but not limited to (Agreeing to an alternative contract with any supplier including existing / Submitting a COT/COO/ Disconnection of meter), GEAB shall be entitled to charge the Customer an administration fee of the value equating to 10% of the total value of the Contract to the Supplier plus VAT (the “Non-Live Administration Fee”)."

              The letter from the broker details the following:

              "Breakdown of Costs
              The breakdown of costs relating to the default fee are:

              Contract Start Date: 18th April 2020
              Total Value of Contract to the Supplier: £3,322.04
              Administration Fee (10%): £332.20

              In addition to your liability to our client, as above, a payment of a statutory late payment fee as per the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 is due: £40.00.
              Please bear in mind that any reasonable costs incurred by our client are also due to be paid to our client in pursuing payment where such costs exceed this statutory fee.

              In the event court proceedings are issued our client will also seek payment as follows:
              (i) interest will accrue on the default fee (inclusive of VAT) at the rate of 8% from the date of breach to the date of actual payment. Interest to date is £161.73 and continues to accrue at £0.09 per day; and
              (ii) a court fee of £50.00.

              HMRC confirm that VAT is due to be paid whether the payment is described as damages, settlement or otherwise. It is always payable when the liability arises under a contract (HMRC VAT briefing 2/2022).

              As of today’s date, your liability to make payment to our client, including interest, statutory collection fee and court fee (before the addition of any other reasonable costs and should proceedings be issued) is currently £650.37."

              Comment


              • #8
                These are GEAB's current Terms and Conditions, might be worth going through them -

                see if they followed them - https://geab.com/company-terms-conditions/



                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by echat11 View Post
                  These are GEAB's current Terms and Conditions, might be worth going through them -

                  see if they followed them - https://geab.com/company-terms-conditions/


                  I think the main point is that, while that website might show what the terms and conditions are now, there is no reference to this website nor are any terms and conditions referred to in any of the evidences they are attempting to use to claim a breach of terms and conditions! How can I have breached T&Cs for which there is no proof of existence at the time of the alleged signing of the contract?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jelle View Post

                    I think the main point is that, while that website might show what the terms and conditions are now, there is no reference to this website nor are any terms and conditions referred to in any of the evidences they are attempting to use to claim a breach of terms and conditions! How can I have breached T&Cs for which there is no proof of existence at the time of the alleged signing of the contract?
                    There might be Terms and Conditions online.

                    https://web.archive.org/web/20250401...ps://geab.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey everyone, I've just come across this thread whilst looking online for information about PreAction Ltd, because they're threatening my elderly uncle. He's 80 in less than a month, has recently had 2 strokes, and has cancer. I'm helping him to draft a response.

                      I fully understand they don't have a case. The "terms and conditions" on PreAction's website can't be tied to the alleged contract with British Gas. In fact, it seems to me the company may potentially be guilty of some quite serious crimes such as fraud by false representation in breach of s.2 Fraud Act 2006, false accounting in breach of s.17 Theft Act 1968, blackmail in breach of s.21 Theft Act 1968 and Harassment in breach of s.1 and/or 1A of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. For the avoidance of doubt, this is just my personal opinion and I'm not making any statement of facts about the company, its directors, employees or agents.

                      To show breach of s.1A of PHA 1997, it's necessary to show "a course of conduct —
                      (a)which involves harassment of two or more persons".

                      https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/section/1

                      My uncle is 1 person. I wondered if anyone else who has suffered at the hands of these people might be willing to say they've also felt harassed? There are 2 potential avenues of recourse to try to stop these people - civil and criminal. My feeling is that these people can't be allowed to go on apparently threatening, intimidating and coercing payment from, sometimes, vulnerable people, on what seems to me to be no reasonable or legitimate grounds. Does anyone else feel as strongly as I do?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It seems that one of the directors of PreAction Ltd is Stephen Andrew Wiles:

                        https://find-and-update.company-info...90402/officers

                        Who is a solicitor, regulated by the SRA:

                        https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/reg...aNumber=147226

                        Does anyone have any views on whether Mr Wiles might be in breach of the Solicitors' Regulation Authority ("SRA") Code of Conduct (e.g., paras 1.2 and 1.4) by PreAction's actions?

                        https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/st...ct-solicitors/

                        Any relevant legislation (Legal Services Act 2007 aside) or case law anyone can point me to, please?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Pennotsword

                          I spent almost 2 years fighting against this company on behalf of others and have been out of the loop for the past year, however firstly I must express my astonishment that they are representing BG.

                          My advise to you is to request from them all the information that they hold on you, then you will have a rough idea of what is ocuring.

                          PA have the nasty habit of targeting anyone and everything including doctors surgeries, this is normally done on behalf of so called Utility Agents and they send a letter stating that the T & C's have been breached.

                          this is the first time I have heard of them having T & C's on their own website, is this purportedly a copy of BG conditions or their own. I would contact BG and ask them if they have given PreAction permission.

                          I love you have done all the research into the various acts that they seem to have breached, However I can assure you that the only solicitor in the company has shielded the company against most of them.

                          I reported them to Action Fraud who replied back that they would take the matter no further.

                          You will be barraged with threatening letters, Form N1 stating what they are claiming for, possibly emails and telephone calls. if you do email them use a spoof email address that you can destroy at anytime same with telephone number, just ensure they only respond in writing.

                          You have not said the amount that they are asking of your father, also would appreciate if you could post a copy of the terms and conditions or they URL of where they sit.

                          Do not give in to them they are bullies. am here to lend ahand if you need it.

                          Comment

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