Reconstituted CCA PRA Group (Barclay Card)

[t187187]

Hello Forum,

I have requested a copy of the CCA agreement directly from PRA whom the account was sold to by Barclay Card, and instead I received what I believe is a generic reconstituted CCA with a copy of statements in relation to the account. The statements show the credit limit and balance outstanding. I am likely to have opened the account online in 2012 and then sold to PRA in 2019.

I have attached their response to my complaint about awaiting the CCA and it was upheld offering £50 compensation. It was also mentioned that they were not satisfied to have fulfilled my request under CCA, and that my account is enforceable.

I have attached the reconstituted agreement and it mentions that they have enclosed the following documents:
Short form cancellation
Historic terms and conditions
Varied terms and conditions

I believe that the above are present, but I would like a heads up to confirm this is the case.

I note that on some of the pages have words concealed in black. I’m not sure if that matters.

I note that home addresses are different on two different pages, and again, I’m not sure if that matters.

To challenge or not challenge… I have a feeling that they might have fulfilled their legal obligation for enforcement action, however, I read that they might not have done enough because they are no prescribed terms. Also, because I think that they are leading me to believe that they have genuine documents when in fact they don't, I am likely to ask for confirmation under CPUTR (Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations) 2008. Will all this be worth a challenge? Any advice will be much appreciated.

[t187187]

Attachments.

[echat11]

Hi T187187

Welcome to LB

They can reconstitute an agreement, but they have to be up front and tell you that it is a 'reconstituted agreement', they can't send it to you, without telling you that.

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/hand...ate=2016-03-07

https://lawzone.legal/when-is-a-cred...0unenforceable.

Send a Subject Access Request to Barclaycard, see what other 'anomalies' are in the data they send. Make sure you get Proof of Postage.

There should be a Default Notice, is it compliant?

There should be a Notice of Assignment is it compliant?

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

'It was also mentioned that they were not satisfied to have fulfilled my request under CCA, and that my account is enforceable.'

You mean they are satisfied the account is enforceable.

'I note that home addresses are different on two different pages, and again, I’m not sure if that matters.'

There should only be one home address, the one where the original agreement was taken out.

Check the bottom of the Terms and Conditions they've sent you, there should be an date/issue reference number, do they 'add up'. Example agreement taken out in 2012, but the ref no says 123 / 2015 etc. So the Terms and Conditions can't be from 2012.

(I haven't looked at the attachments at this time)

[t187187]

Thank you for your helpful reply.

I will look into sending a SAR and Just to confirm that I am requesting the Default Notice, and a Letter of Assignment. Shall I also request the Credit Agreement?

Regarding the mention of the account being enforceable, their exact wording can be construed as ambiguous. I took it to mean that the account is not enforceable (in bold) exact wording : “We are not satisfied that we have fulfilled your request under CCA, and that your account is enforceable. With that being said, I do recognise that there was a delay in the request being fully actioned, and I will therefore be upholding your complaint.”

thank you for clarifying that the use of one address should be in the contract.

after Checking the bottom of the Terms and Conditions. I don’t see any date/issue reference number. What I can see are the words, ‘restricted - external.’


Thanks again.

[echat11]

a) I will look into sending a SAR and Just to confirm that I am requesting the Default Notice, and a Letter of Assignment. Shall I also request the Credit Agreement?

You are requesting everything under your account, so you don't need to itemise documents. You just need to say 'this is a Subject Access Request, please provide all the data that you hold under account XXXXXXXX'.

b) Regarding the mention of the account being enforceable, their exact wording can be construed as ambiguous. I took it to mean that the account is not enforceable (in bold) exact wording : “We are not satisfied that we have fulfilled your request under CCA, and that your account is enforceable. With that being said, I do recognise that there was a delay in the request being fully actioned, and I will therefore be upholding your complaint.”

Rereading it, I believe it says - they don't believe they've 'fulfilled' your CCA request and are 'unsure' if your account is enforceable.

c) after Checking the bottom of the Terms and Conditions. I don’t see any date/issue reference number. What I can see are the words, ‘restricted - external.’

All Terms and Conditions has a issue Ref / Year, that's so they know what year the Terms and Conditions refer to. Barclaycard are particular good at that, go through the document see if they state months / years. This looks like a 'generic' set of Terms and Conditions.

[echat11]

Page 28 in the link below, on the left hand side, it's vertical, you have a Ref with 01/20.
I believe that your Terms and Conditions should have the same (I caveat that by saying,
they may of left it out and not sent the last page, but nevertheless, how can you tell whether
those Terms and Conditions apply to you?). There may well be other anomalies.

As aside - the link has 2019.

https://www.barclaycard.co.uk/conten...-core-2019.pdf

[t187187]

Right, yes. As there are a couple of pages missing, I can also add this to my concerns in my reply to the complaints handler. Quite a shoddy approach for a company that should be acting transparently.
The 2019 link will make a decent comparison.
next steps: I’m in the process of sending the SAR and I hope to receive it on or before 20th February as that’s the time PRA want my response. Then I’ll Gather all information and by doing it this way, I should have enough information to at least make a sound argument.

I am likely to post any updates on the forum, hopefully favourable, but also unfavourable; it’s still worth sharing.

Thank you

[echat11]

Right, yes. As there are a couple of pages missing, I can also add this to my concerns in my reply to the complaints handler. Quite a shoddy approach for a company that should be acting transparently.
The 2019 link will make a decent comparison.
next steps: I’m in the process of sending the SAR and I hope to receive it on or before 20th February as that’s the time PRA want my response. Then I’ll Gather all information and by doing it this way, I should have enough information to at least make a sound argument.

I am likely to post any updates on the forum, hopefully favourable, but also unfavourable; it’s still worth sharing.

Thank you

Yes please update.

Also if you need an extension beyond the 20th February, just ask them for an extension, but do it at least 7 days before the 20th February.

[t187187]

Got it, many thanks.

Also i noted on the CCA that there are two different regulators on different pages : OFT and FSA. Although I read that they worked together for consumer protection, Could this be another possible oddity?
OFT and FSA were replaced by FCA.

[echat11]

Got it, many thanks.

Also i noted on the CCA that there are two different regulators on different pages : OFT and FSA. Although I read that they worked together for consumer protection, Could this be another possible oddity?
OFT and FSA were replaced by FCA.

I believe they each looked after different aspects of consumer protection, so both should be on the CCA.

[t187187]

Hello,

I have an update from since my last message.

Here is my message to PRA below:

Thank you for looking into my complaint that you have constituted to be serious. I acknowledge the reconstituted copy albeit acknowledging that my account is not enforceable. I am going to address my queries relating to its contents.

1. Upon reading the reconstituted agreement, it shows two completely different addresses. If or when referring to an UK residential address in an agreement, there should only be one home address as this is the one where the original agreement was taken out. I refer to “The FSA Handbook The Copy Agreement, Section 3:

The terms and conditions should be those applicable at the time the agreement was executed. The name and address at the time of execution must be included.” Which is one address.

I refer to “Failure to Comply section

1:

Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.”


2. In the reconstituted agreement, all Terms and Conditions has an Issue Reference / Year, so the relevant individuals know what year the Terms and Conditions were in place when the agreement was originally made. I refer to document regulations for when agreements are a copy which sets out legibility requirements for any agreement supplied under the act of “Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI/1557). 2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms (1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the [background medium upon which the information is displayed].” Upon reading the reconstituted agreement, the last few pages appear missing and without this information, I am unable to find and refer to Date/Issue Reference Number and as such, I am unable to deduce any reference to whether the Terms and Conditions belong to me. Therefore, I also refer to PRA Group v Holmes: “The claimant did not comply with s78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA) as they were unable to demonstrate that the terms and conditions disclosed to the defendant on request were those applicable to the agreements at the relevant times. The agreements were therefore unenforceable.”

3. As in Carey v HSBC it stated that reconstituted Agreements are not in themselves proof of execution, which means that although creditors may comply with a section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 request by sending a reconstituted version in response, arguing that they have fulfilled their obligations,when it’s not a copy of the executed Agreement, then the courts will view this as unenforceable. The court can also determine a claim that there was an Irredeemably Unenforceable Agreement (IEA) is an abuse of process and may be struck out on that basis. Paragraphs 108 and 234 of Carey stated that copies of executed Agreements must be taken directly from the original format; ie, from the original Agreement, including any variation of terms, where applicable.

4. Please provide further clarification regarding the Variation of Terms and Conditions and missing Prescribed Terms. As there is reference to the mention of Terms and Conditions as being varied, the FCA handbook Section 6, states the duty is to provide not only a copy of the agreement as originally executed but also either: (a) a copy of the latest variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the CCA relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied; or, (b) a clear statement of the terms of the agreement as varied. With regards to the Prescribed Terms, there is a failure to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement, then it will be found unenforceable.

5. I will confer that where there is a stipulation of assignment of debt, does not prove legal assignment without proof; without it there is no proof of Assignment of debt and thereby stating an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable; according to the PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED v DIANA MAYHEW case, the agreement is irrevocable unenforceable.

6. There is confirmation that PRA Group and you believe that a true copy of the credit agreement exists in relation to this account. As the PRA group and you have sent this document in response to my requests under Section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, then this statement by PRA Group and you is now binding on the PRA Group and you as per section 172 of the Act. This means that the document I have received from yourselves is the only document that you can rely on in any attempt at enforcing the alleged debt. Any further documentation that PRA Group or you may present is irrelevant as PRA Group or you did not provide it in response to my lawful request and any request to comply will be refused by the court: PRA Group v Holmes.

7. This is a formal request under CPUTR (Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations) 2008 to provide written confirmation that clearly states whether or not PRA Group or you currently hold an original signed consumer credit agreement that pertains to myself. For the avoidance of doubt, an original signed consumer credit agreement is just that; not an application for credit, nor a reconstruction from other sources. I expect yourselves to kindly comply with my outstanding request within 7 days to produce a copy of an executable agreement. After that I will consider that the above matter is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt. If the PRA Group and you are insisting that the non-enforceable reconstituted document, that you have supplied, is the only alleged agreement in your possession, then I would suggest that the best course of action would be to immediately set the balance of the above account number to zero, and remove any adverse data that you may have registered with credit reference agencies.

[t187187]

Here is PRA reply: this letter was sent in 2020, although I don’t recall receiving it and when I recently requested a subject access request, it wasn’t provided.


NOA Letter below

We’re getting in touch to let you know we’ve now transferred your Barclaycard over to PRA Group (UK)

Limited, so they’ll be looking after your account from now on.

PRA Group (UK) Limited are a reputable, specialist financial services company with almost 20 years of

experience. T reating customers fairly is important to them, and they’re subject to all the financial and

legal regulations that we are at Barclaycard. We chose them as our transfer partner after a thorough

selection process. If you’d like to find out more about them, just go to pragroup.co.uk.

What you need to know

• When we transferred your Barclaycard account on 19/12/2019 , the outstanding balance was

• Y our agreed repayments will stay the same for at least six months or until your account is due for

review if that’s longer (as long as you keep making payments on time)

• If you didn’t have a repayment agreement with us or you aren’t making payments at the moment –

PRA Group (UK) Limited will be in touch to review your situation and see if they can agree a new

repayment arrangement with you

• If you haven’t already, you’ll need to cancel any Standing Orders to pay us and create a new Standing

Order using details for PRA Group (UK) Limited

Please start making payments to PRA Group (UK) Limited

From now on, you’ll need to make payments to PRA Group (UK) Limited, and not Barclaycard. You can

get in touch with them by:

• calling 0800 877 2772 (Monday to Thursday, 8am – 8.30pm, Friday, 9am – 5pm and Saturdays, 8am

– 2pm)

• visiting pragroup.co.uk

• writing to PRA Group (UK) Limited, 2 The Cross, Kilmarnock, Scotland KA1 1LR

We’ve included answers to some frequently asked questions on the back of this letter .

Kind regards

Y our Barclaycard T eam

[t187187]

Dispute letter response from PRA :

Please find enclosed; Statements, Reconstituted Agreement including Historic and Varied Terms and

Conditions and Notice of Assignment (NOA).

To clarify, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) guidelines advise that the copy of the executed

agreement should be a ‘true copy’ of the original. This does not necessarily mean an exact copy of

the signed agreement. There is no obligation to provide a copy which includes the signature.

Furthermore, a firm can reconstitute a copy by re-populating a template of the relevant agreement

form with the details of the specific agreement from its records.

. As this contains

Historic and Varied T&C, this is likely due to changing addresses.

In addition, the examples that you have provided as to why the Reconstituted Agreement makes your

account unenforceable are within a court setting and have no bearing on your account or it’s

enforcement.

Having reviewed the enclosed documentation provided, I am satisfied this does contain the

prescribed terms and we have fulfilled our obligation under the Consumer Credit Act (CCA)

regulations.

When we purchased the account, you were sent a NOA to advise we were now the legal owners of

the account. The NOA showed that when we purchased the account, the benefits, rights, title, and

interest of this account were assigned to us. A new agreement has not been made and a signed

contract with you is not required.

For clarity, this is all that is required to confirm our assignment. I have provided a link below to the

StepChange website that explains this further:

https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info...e-sold-on.aspx

To be clear, PRA Group consider our assignment of your account to be lawful and in line with your

Terms and Conditions. Based on the above information, I am satisfied that you (Tamara Howard

Walker) remain liable for this account and balance owed.

Next steps

I trust that this now clarifies our position in relation to your dispute, however if we have misunderstood

any element or you have new information that we should consider please contact our Disputes Team

on 0808 1965 542 or disputes@pragroup.co.uk quoting the dispute reference number xxx.

Thank you for allowing me time to review your dispute.

We have carried out and investigation which suggests you are in a position to come to a resolution -

the next stage is for us to issue a claim through the Court. We would like to work with you to stop this

happening. We are committed to helping you and we want to find the best outcome to manage your

outstanding balance. At present, we are unaware of how you wish to proceed moving forward;

however, I must advise that if we are unable to come to a resolution, we will issue a claim through the

court.

Moving forward we would like to support you with your account and want to be as flexible as possible

to find the best outcome for you. For example, we have multiple options available to you regarding

repayment. I have included examples below, some of which are similar in value to your last payment

to PRA Group, should they remain affordable for you:

Plan Length (Years) Monthly Payment Amount

1 £197.97

5 £39.60

10 £19.80

With that in mind, I have included a Budget Calculator form for you to complete and send back to us

to allow us to better understand your circumstances.

I have held your account for 30 days until 16 May 2025 to allow you time to receive

my response and consider your next steps. If we don’t hear back from you during this time your

account will reopen to further contact to get an update from you. It may also result in further steps

being taken to resolve your account such as continued litigation action.

If you would like to discuss your account further, or have any updates to provide to us, please contact

us on 0808 1965 550 or by email at enquiries@pragroup.co.uk . Alternatively, you can correspond by

post using the details within the ‘Get in touch’ section of the letterhead.

Yours sincerely,

Disputes Agent

Enclosed:

Statements

NOA

Budget Calculator

Reconstituted Agreement including Historic and Varied Terms and Conditions

[t187187]

Any chance of pursuing further?

[echat11]

Here is PRA reply: this letter was sent in 2020, although I don’t recall receiving it and when I recently requested a subject access request, it wasn’t provided.


NOA Letter below

We’re getting in touch to let you know we’ve now transferred your Barclaycard over to PRA Group (UK)

Limited, so they’ll be looking after your account from now on.

PRA Group (UK) Limited are a reputable, specialist financial services company with almost 20 years of

experience. T reating customers fairly is important to them, and they’re subject to all the financial and

legal regulations that we are at Barclaycard. We chose them as our transfer partner after a thorough

selection process. If you’d like to find out more about them, just go to pragroup.co.uk.

What you need to know

• When we transferred your Barclaycard account on 19/12/2019 , the outstanding balance was

• Y our agreed repayments will stay the same for at least six months or until your account is due for

review if that’s longer (as long as you keep making payments on time)

• If you didn’t have a repayment agreement with us or you aren’t making payments at the moment –

PRA Group (UK) Limited will be in touch to review your situation and see if they can agree a new

repayment arrangement with you

• If you haven’t already, you’ll need to cancel any Standing Orders to pay us and create a new Standing

Order using details for PRA Group (UK) Limited

Please start making payments to PRA Group (UK) Limited

From now on, you’ll need to make payments to PRA Group (UK) Limited, and not Barclaycard. You can

get in touch with them by:

• calling 0800 877 2772 (Monday to Thursday, 8am – 8.30pm, Friday, 9am – 5pm and Saturdays, 8am

– 2pm)

• visiting pragroup.co.uk

• writing to PRA Group (UK) Limited, 2 The Cross, Kilmarnock, Scotland KA1 1LR

We’ve included answers to some frequently asked questions on the back of this letter .

Kind regards

Y our Barclaycard T eam

If you didn't receive at the time, then that's not great as you wouldn't know who to deal with.