Is CCA provided valid

[gemini007]

I took out a credit card with Egg in around 2006 (not sure exactly) which Barclays took over in 2011. In 2016 I defaulted on the account, as had several unmanageable accounts which my ex-partner got me to take out in my name, which he used for his spending, and I could no longer make the payments. I set up a £1 a month payment to each, and subsequently paid some off with a 10% offer which was accepted by some. In 2019 I learnt that I could request the CCA, which I did from Link who were by then managing the account. They sent a letter saying it was currently unenforceable but a few days later I got a letter from Barclaycard with a copy of a sheet with my name and address where I was living at the time of the Egg card, but nothing further on this sheet except a box stating Your Right To Cancel - once you have signed this agreement you will have a short time in which you can cancel it etc, but this sheet was not attached to anything further. They also sent a 12 page Credit Card Agreement regulated by the CCA 1974, but it was generic and says This is a credit card agreement between Egg Banking of .....address and you, the person who signed this Agreement (with no name or address). The agreement is not signed, and says Restricted - Internal at the bottom of every page.
They also sent a letter from Barclaycard with a reconstituted copy of a credit agreement with Barclaycard, and it says This is a statement of the terms of your agreement with us and incorporates any variations to the terms made since you entered into this agreement. They finished with This completes our obligations under Section 78 if the Act. The agreement itself is not signed and has my name and an address where I was living in 2015. It doesn't state a credit limit. It says We'll tell you what your credit limit is when we first open your account, which makes it sound like it is a new agreement, but nowhere does it show me agreeing to take out this card.
My question that I hope someone can help with is - if a bank takes over a credit card, should the original bank be the one to show my agreement with them for it to be enforceable? (ie Egg). Can Barclaycard use this without my signature or a credit limit? is it actually an agreement between us? I would be happy to forward the documents for someone to check. Hope you can help

[Pezza54]

Hi
Please read the article www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13349239

Section 78 of CCA 74 requires a credit card lender to supply a "true copy" of its original loan agreement if a borrower requests one

Acquiring banks have tried to use unsigned reconstituted loan agreements when they have not been able to retrieve the original signed agreement.

The Harrison case discussed in the article disagreed with the Manchester High Court decision in 2009 that a true copy was not required and a reconstituted agreement was acceptable

[echat11]

What they have sent you isn't compliant, it has to be an Egg agreement, they can't send you a Barclaycard agreement and think it's o.k. As it is the debt is 'unenforceable'. It also has to have certain 'prescribed terms' on it.

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/hand...ate=2016-03-07

[gemini007]

thank you Pezza54. in the absence of an original signed agreement with Egg, would they still have a case to pursue? Does this Harrison case set a precedent that they can't pursue it with an unsigned agreement sent out years later?

[Clockwork]

This original credit card agreement was with Egg banking who were taken over by by Barclaycard in 2011. There have historically been a number of problems with the Egg CCA for a variety of reasons. Any CCA agreement prior to April 2007 must be a true copy , which clearly yours isn’t, even though link will say it’s enforceable for obvious reasons. Have Barclaycard sold on your account to Link and if so did you get a notice of assignment stating this had happened. What normally happens is a faceless offshore purchaser called LC asset 2 purchase the account for pennies in the pound and get Link to collect the full amount from the vulnerable consumer. Both these companies are connected, but LC asset are not authorised and regulated by the FCA , which is problematic for them , should they wish to commence legal action. Link are misleading you with the enforceability of the reconstituted agreement and in breach of FCA directions.

[gemini007]

This original credit card agreement was with Egg banking who were taken over by by Barclaycard in 2011. There have historically been a number of problems with the Egg CCA for a variety of reasons. Any CCA agreement prior to April 2007 must be a true copy , which clearly yours isn’t, even though link will say it’s enforceable for obvious reasons. Have Barclaycard sold on your account to Link and if so did you get a notice of assignment stating this had happened. What normally happens is a faceless offshore purchaser called LC asset 2 purchase the account for pennies in the pound and get Link to collect the full amount from the vulnerable consumer. Both these companies are connected, but LC asset are not authorised and regulated by the FCA , which is problematic for them , should they wish to commence legal action. Link are misleading you with the enforceability of the reconstituted agreement and in breach of FCA directions.

Thank you Clockwork. Yes Barclaycard have sold it to Link. I don't have a record of a notice of assignment. Link are asking me to complete an affordability review, which they do a couple of times a year. Should I challenge the enforceability of the Barclaycard agreement with Link, or just ask them to confirm if the account is enforceable? Don't want to encourage them to look at it to see if they can enforce, just in case they can. The debt is for nearly £15,000.

[echat11]

Send the following letter under heading, make sure you get Proof of Postage (the FCA states that if an agreement is Unenforceable the Creditor should tell you. It was a Egg Credit Card, not a Barclaycard Credit Card, the creditor is breaking FCA Rules) - I still have not had the information I asked for (CCA request follow up)

https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info...e-letters.aspx

If they comeback with the same nonsense, then lodge a formal complaint (process will be on their website).

[Clockwork]

It may be worth double checking who are the owners of this alleged debt. Whether it is link or LC asset 2. This is important for the reasons l stated earlier.

When you initially made the CCA request to Link did you make a formal request and include a postal order or cheque for the £1 fee. Again this is important.

Barclaycard have sent you a reconstituted Egg agreement because they clearly haven’t got the original. As stated earlier the CCA prior to April 2007 must be a true copy if they are intending to rely on this and l very much doubt it will be.

Link should be complying with FCA directions and inform you if the account is unenforceable, but they have a habit of misleading the consumer and will confirm it is unenforceable irrespective of the true facts. Remember they are attempting to maximise their profits irrespective of the true facts.

lf it was me l would clarify the above points and raise a complaint in writing stating they have breached FCA regulations and are misleading you as to the true position of the account in relation to enforceability. for the reason no stated above.

They have no power to demand an income and expenditure statement, and if you raise a formal complaint they must put the account on hold and give you a formal response within 8 weeks.

At least if you take this course f action you will force them to make their position clear and you can review the matter further and decide what direction to take.

[gemini007]

It may be worth double checking who are the owners of this alleged debt. Whether it is link or LC asset 2. This is important for the reasons l stated earlier.

When you initially made the CCA request to Link did you make a formal request and include a postal order or cheque for the £1 fee. Again this is important.

Barclaycard have sent you a reconstituted Egg agreement because they clearly haven’t got the original. As stated earlier the CCA prior to April 2007 must be a true copy if they are intending to rely on this and l very much doubt it will be.

Link should be complying with FCA directions and inform you if the account is unenforceable, but they have a habit of misleading the consumer and will confirm it is unenforceable irrespective of the true facts. Remember they are attempting to maximise their profits irrespective of the true facts.

lf it was me l would clarify the above points and raise a complaint in writing stating they have breached FCA regulations and are misleading you as to the true position of the account in relation to enforceability. for the reason no stated above.

They have no power to demand an income and expenditure statement, and if you raise a formal complaint they must put the account on hold and give you a formal response within 8 weeks.

At least if you take this course f action you will force them to make their position clear and you can review the matter further and decide what direction to take.

Thanks Clockwork. Yes I made a formal request with £1 and received an initial reply from Link saying it was unenforceable. Then a few days later got the copy agreement from Barclaycard and a letter from Barclaycard along with the copy agreement from Egg (with a separate sheet with my name and address on it). How do I check if it is Link or LC asset 2? All correspondence is with Link Financial.
When you say clarify the above points do you mean the lack of a signed agreement with Egg? Just to be clear which "reason stated above" for breaching regulations? sorry to be pernickety but want to get it right. As it is 4 years since they replied with the Barclaycard agreement can I raise it like this now?

[gemini007]

Send the following letter under heading, make sure you get Proof of Postage (the FCA states that if an agreement is Unenforceable the Creditor should tell you. It was a Egg Credit Card, not a Barclaycard Credit Card, the creditor is breaking FCA Rules) - I still have not had the information I asked for (CCA request follow up)

https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info...e-letters.aspx

If they comeback with the same nonsense, then lodge a formal complaint (process will be on their website).

Thanks Echat. They did send a Barclaycard agreement and I didn't question it at the time. Does that weaken my position?

[Clockwork]

It doesn’t appear that you have received a notice of assignment from Barclaycard on the sale and Link ( If they are the new owners) on the purchase, which obviously identifies the new owner . The CCA request involved you receiving a generic Egg agreement , subsequently supported by a reconstituted agreement for a Barclaycard when the original account was for an Egg card which is nonsense and ECHAT has advised accordingly. All depends what you want to do with this and if you are happy paying a £1 a month it may be better to leave well alone , but also have the knowledge that if Link move the goal posts and demand a higher payment or go for a judgement you are in a position to fight this.

[echat11]

Also, if the agreement has been 'varied' since the inception of the account, then they need to provide a copy of the 'varied' Terms and Conditions to, i.e. APR, Credit limit etc.

[echat11]

Thanks Echat. They did send a Barclaycard agreement and I didn't question it at the time. Does that weaken my position?

No it doesn't.