Yet another dodgy 2nd hand car dealer - abusive, threatening.

[Thunderstruck37]

Hello all,

I will apologise in advance for the length of this thread, but I have tried to be comprehensive and include everything that I can.



I recently bought a second hand car from a dealer. The car is 9 years old and has covered a little over 100,000 miles, but has a full service history and looked to be in immaculate condition. I did not test drive the car but was able to look at it albeit inside a warehouse-type building which was somewhat noisy. On looking over the car, everything seemed to be OK and so I paid a third of the money there and then via bank transfer (the dealer did not take card payments). I then paid the balance the next day and attended the dealership to collect the car. This cost in total was £3,500

On driving the car home (a distance of around 25 miles) I noticed that there was a rumbling noise coming from the exhaust, a "ticking"/"tapping" sound from the engine, the steering seemed "heavy" and the engine was mis-firing, causing the car to shudder and shake as it sporadically lost power.

I immediately arranged a full vehicle inspection with an independent garage in my home town and a report was prepared for me. The exhaust was corroded and blown, there were issues with the front suspension arms and noises coming from the engine, although the mechanic was unable to diagnose the exact fault, he suspected that it was something to do with the sump, which apparently means a new engine when it finally fails. This is all after the car was MOTd (by a friend of the dealer's) less than 14 days before I bought it.

With this in mind, I contacted the dealer and very politely advised him that I would be bringing the car back for a refund under the CRA 2015 30-day short term rejection regs. He immediately became aggressive, threatening, abusive and sarcastic and told me that I wouldn't be getting a refund and that I had to return to car to him so that he could get the MOT tester to visit his garage (hence why I know they are in cahoots) and get it up on a lift so that they could "inspect it" while I'm there - none of which I'm required to do under the 30-day short term rejection regs. I suspect that this is so an attempt could be made to strong-arm me into keeping the car.

He asked how many miles I'd done in it (which I told him) and he then told me he thinks I'm just trying to get free use of a car then taking it back so I can get a "free hire car" ...Complete BS of course but this fellow seems to have previous for this. The reviews for his garage (which I admit I should have checked beforehand) are absolutely appalling, and he himself was in court on criminal charges (and convicted) a few years ago for selling dangerous cars.

He told me over the phone that if I were to leave a review he'd "have me for that" (presumably meaning a baseless legal threat but could also be construed as a physical threat), and that I'm an "idiot" and that I'll be "hearing from his barrister" (him clearly now knowing the difference between a barrister and a bag of crisps). This is ALL after I simply (and very politely) requested a refund for a defective vehicle and even offered to drop it off.

I now intend to get the vehicle checked by the main dealer/manufacturer (which is going to cost me another £150) to try and strengthen my case when I take this character to court. I am going to obtain the report, then photocopy all the evidence that I have and send it to the dealer (with proof of posting) along with a letter outlining that I am rejecting the vehicle under the CRA 2015. I am also going to request that any and all communications from them now must be carried out in writing.

My queries regarding this however are:

1. Will his previous criminal conviction for a clearly related matter (it was simply a matter of me finding the information by doing a google search of his name) be relevant and should I include it in the claim?

2. Can I claim the money that I have spent for the inspection(s) back when I make my claim against him?

3. Can I force him to come and collect the vehicle under the CPA 2015? Given the appalling foul-mouthed threats and abuse that I've been subjected to (I could also hear his son bellowing abuse in the background) I have absolutely no desire or intention to place myself in physical danger by visiting these people again. I also don't feel that the car is safe to drive given the suspension problems, which the inspection mechanic advised me is potentially dangerous. If I can do this and he doesn't come to collect it, am I able to charge reasonable costs for storage given that I have legally rejected the vehicle? I don't see how it can be fair that I am liable for looking after HIS car simply because of his disregard for the law?

4. I have tried to find the relevant sections/subsections in the CRA but I am unable to locate the relevant section numbers to quote for:

* His responsibility to collect the vehicle from me.
* The right to reject within 30 days for goods being not being free of defects and unfit for purpose

5. I know that age/mileage and such is taken into account, but I should not expect a 9 year old car with full service history in otherwise good physical condition to have such faults and be expected to accept them? Especially when one of the faults is potentially dangerous and the car only (supposedly) passed an MOT two weeks previously?

6. I have checked on Companies House and the company has two directors, the manager and his son. When I file the claim, should I name it as "(MANAGER'S NAME) trading as (BUSINESS NAME LTD)"? I have a suspicion that he will simply try something sneaky like trying to claim it is not his business etc. If I get a judgment, my intention is to elevate it for High Court enforcement - could they go after the business and/or him personally? The value of business assets that they submit in their yearly accounts to Companies House is also ridiculously low, given the amount of cars that they have in their warehouse for sale. Could this be considered fraud?

7. Should I now SORN the car, keep it off the road and cancel the insurance?

I really appreciate any help and advice that anybody can give on this.

Many thanks in advance for your time,

T

[atticus]

Before you go any further, and before we get into all your other questions, you need to be absolutely clear that you are taking action against the correct defendant. For much of your post you talk about the dealer as being a person. Then in point no 6 you throw in your findings about "the company".

Please be clear. Who did you buy the vehicle from? Look at the documents - any contract, order form, invoice etc. Who did you pay? If the answers to those questions are a limited company, then your contract was with the company and it is the company you must sue.

Fred Smith does not trade, as Fred Smith Motors Ltd. Fred Smith Motors Ltd does.

[Thunderstruck37]

Before you go any further, and before we get into all your other questions, you need to be absolutely clear that you are taking action against the correct defendant. For much of your post you talk about the dealer as being a person. Then in point no 6 you throw in your findings about "the company".

Please be clear. Who did you buy the vehicle from? Look at the documents - any contract, order form, invoice etc. Who did you pay? If the answers to those questions are a limited company, then your contract was with the company and it is the company you must sue.

Fred Smith does not trade, as Fred Smith Motors Ltd. Fred Smith Motors Ltd does.

Thanks you Atticus,

It is a Ltd company. The money was paid into the personal account of the company director.

Many thanks,

T

[Thunderstruck37]

As an addendum to the above post, I actually made payment for the car by bank transfer but it was into the personal account of the company director rather than a business bank account for the limited company (which I now understand is against the law?) If bought the vehicle through the business (the business name etc is printed on the invoice that I have) but actually paid the money into a personal account, should I pursue a claim against BOTH the business and the director whose personal account I paid the money into?

Many thanks

T

[dslippy]

Possibly, but in any event be ready to prove that you paid the money and into what account, and exactly why.

[Thunderstruck37]

Anybody..?

[des8]

If I was in your position I would first write a letter before claim (send first class with free certificate of posting from post office) to the dealer setting out your concerns with the vehicle and confirming your rejection of it as per your short term right (CRA 2015 sec20 &22) as it does not conform to the contract.

Confirm it is available for his collection and you require a refund of the purchase price ((CRA 2015 sec20 (7) (b.))

Advise him that in the absence of a response within two weeks you will initiate court action without further reference to him

If the car is unroadworthy it is illegal for it to be on the road.
By all means "sorn" it, but remember whilst it is in your possession you are responsible for it, so I would leave the insurance in place.

[Thunderstruck37]

If I was in your position I would first write a letter before claim (send first class with free certificate of posting from post office) to the dealer setting out your concerns with the vehicle and confirming your rejection of it as per your short term right (CRA 2015 sec20 &22) as it does not conform to the contract.

Confirm it is available for his collection and you require a refund of the purchase price ((CRA 2015 sec20 (7) (b.))

Advise him that in the absence of a response within two weeks you will initiate court action without further reference to him

If the car is unroadworthy it is illegal for it to be on the road.
By all means "sorn" it, but remember whilst it is in your possession you are responsible for it, so I would leave the insurance in place.

Thank you Des, I appreciate your help