chloechadwel

[Chloechadwel]

Hello, I have an ongoing situation with my local council concerning their unauthorised ‘recycling’ of my family cremated remains grave plot. Due to a serious blunder by the council and lack of space, they have deliberately exhumed a previously interred family member’s cremated remains for the purpose of creating a vacant plot for a subsequent family member’s interment.
The present situation I find myself in, is, after notifying the police of the unauthorised exhumation, and what I always believed to be an unlawful and criminal act, the police have completely refused to get involved, stating that deliberate unauthorised exhumation is not a police matter but a civil matter between myself and the council.
Would someone please clarify.
Thank you.
chloechadwel.

[Chloechadwel]

With reference to my previous post, the police Constable, after taking my ‘complaint’ over the telephone, refused my polite request for a transcript of the call. Is this normal police procedure.

[islandgirl]

I am not surprised this is a civil matter. What do the council say? Why would a copy of the call help you at the moment? I am sorry that this awful thing has happened but I think the onus is on the council to sort it out (and possibly compensate you if procedure was not followed, not that that will remove the upset of course)

[Chloechadwel]

Hello ISLAND GIRL, thank you for your response.

I asked for transcript so if needed I can refer to the extremely important content of the telephone conversation . As it stands at the moment I have nothing to prove I contacted police.

The council are completely ignoring my requests for a meeting.

May I clarify, for my future legal intentions, that you are confirming an unauthorised,deliberate exhumation is without any doubt a Civil matter and not a criminal/police matter.
Thank you. Chloechadwel.

[islandgirl]

No I am not confirming what you say. It depends on circumstances. One assumes the council issued notices of intent (whether you received them or not is another matter) and did the work with some form of permit. This is very different to you or I going to a graveyard late at night and digging up a body for whatever reason. You would have to ask a Solicitor if he or she thinks a crime has been committed. You can submit report of a potential crime online (like ringing 101) and are given a reference number if you need proof that police are informed. You could mention the phone call when you submit your report. Have you contacted your local councillor for help?

[des8]

Section 25 of the Burial Act 1857 makes it unlawful in England and Wales to disturb human burials without a licence from the Secretary of State.
(NI & Scotland are different!)

it is a criminal offence punnishable on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale.

The application for a licence is here; https://assets.publishing.service.go...on-licence.pdf

so depending on your thoughts when you have considered the above links you might wish to consider a complaint to the police force (process will be on their website)
1) the officer with whom you first raised the matter suggested it was civil and not a criminal matter
20 you believe the council either disturbed the grave without a licence or obtained a licence with false information

you might also wish to make further enquiries from the local council about their application for a licence
involve the CEO and your local councillor

[Huxie]

I am not surprised this is a civil matter. What do the council say? Why would a copy of the call help you at the moment? I am sorry that this awful thing has happened but I think the onus is on the council to sort it out (and possibly compensate you if procedure was not followed, not that that will remove the upset of course)

The background to this can be found on the OP’s earlier thread:
https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...4-chloechadwel

[des8]

Having now reread your earlier thread, you will need to show that the grave was disturbed contrary to the council's denial.

Statements from other witnesses to the disturbance might help your complaint to the police

[Huxie]

Section 25 of the Burial Act 1857 makes it unlawful in England and Wales to disturb human burials without a licence from the Secretary of State.
(NI & Scotland are different!)

it is a criminal offence punnishable on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale.

The application for a licence is here; https://assets.publishing.service.go...on-licence.pdf

so depending on your thoughts when you have considered the above links you might wish to consider a complaint to the police force (process will be on their website)
1) the officer with whom you first raised the matter suggested it was civil and not a criminal matter
20 you believe the council either disturbed the grave without a licence or obtained a licence with false information

you might also wish to make further enquiries from the local council about their application for a licence
involve the CEO and your local councillor

Does this information relate to cremated remains as well? My reading, rightly or wrongly, is that the OP is referring to cremated remains being exhumed.

[des8]

Refers to any human remains ,including cremated

[dslippy]

It is inherent in any burial arrangement that at some point in the future remains may have to be moved. That is what the licensing system is for.

Do not compound a dispute wih the counci with a dispute with the police. I have to say forget the conversation with the police. You have no real complaint with them. They are free to choose to investigate some matters and not others, and even if it were criminal - was there a licence? - they would be free to say 'not interested'.

Stick with the council.

[Chloechadwel]

From Chloechadwel,
Thank you everybody for taking the time to send information related to unauthorised exhumation. All the advice is greatly appreciated and extremely helpful.

To make the situation clearer I will confirm the following,

The cremated remains grave allows for four individual family interments, following on from each other to form a shape similar to a grave burial.

I am the present owner/leaseholder.

Interments in the grave are not allowed to be disturbed for at least 5O years, which is the length of the lease.

The family member’s exhumed cremated remains had only lain to rest in plot 2 for 3 years.

I personally, at the time of interment, placed my late family member’s remains in plot 2.

Approaching the family cremated remains grave for the purpose of the interment of another late family member, I saw with horror that plot two had been completely excavated for the purpose of creating a vacant plot for family member number 3’s interment.

I have now found out that the cremated remains grave originally sold for the purpose of 4 individual interments does not have the space as promised.
Hence, instead of informing families of the problem, should space be needed for a third interment, cemetery operatives have been instructed to ‘double up’ by excavating the second plot ,for the purpose of interring the third family member, using the excavated earth containing the cremated remains of family member number 2 as backfill.

The council have refused or ignored every one of my requests to meet at the family cremated remains grave.

The council have also placed an indefinite ban on all information requests related to our family grave. The ban includes all members of family related to any of the three members of family interred in the grave.

The council have completely ignored my polite standard freedom of information requests related to the situation.
They have also ignored the twenty day response time and completely ignored my requests for internal reviews.

At the beginning of the situation the council told me if I believed a crime/criminal act had been carried out I should inform the police.
The police say unauthorised exhumation is NOT a crime/criminal act and I should approach the council (civil case).

TO CONFIRM , THE COUNCIL DID NOT HAVE PERMISSION TO DISTURB PLOT 2.


I hope the above helps.
Thanks again.
chloechadwel.

[islandgirl]

Yes it does.. It is hard to know the detail when a new thread is created relating to an already detailed problem so thank you for repeating the issue. I am afraid I still do not think the Police will take action against the council and that this will be a civil matter but others may disagree. What would you like to see happen? I am sorry for the distress caused by this matter.

[des8]

Agree with islandgirl , the important bit being "What would you like to see happen? "

[Chloechadwel]

Hello, thank you all again for taking the time to give me your input.

Just a little bit more information related to my situation.

The council are steadfastly refusing to have any contact with me.
To the point as I stated previously of falsely accusing me of vexatious requests. All my requests were standard and all the information I requested would be available within 5 minutes.
This accusation and subsequent information’ban’ has all been instigated to prevent myself and family members from accessing information that will prove beyond any doubt that the council are, when the need arises, ‘recycling’ occupied cremated remains graves.
Yes there are witnesses to the events of the day in question .
The council have stated that they have made, (‘ALLEGEDLY’), lengthy investigations into my accusation and have found nothing amiss.
During their alleged lengthy investigations the council made no contact whatsoever with myself or other family witnesses. I have repeatedly and politely requested a copy of their ‘alleged’ lengthy investigation/s but my requests have been constantly ignored.
I requested my solicitor at the time to write a letter to the council requesting sight of the investigation documents but although he was willing to write the letter he told me he couldn’t guarantee the council would comply with the request.

So to answer the question “What do I want “, one of my requisites is to be given a copy of the council’s ‘alleged’ investigation into the unauthorised and deliberate exhumation of my late family member.
As earlier on in the situation my emails to the council were transferred to a department that prevented direct contact with the CEO etc I am now not sure if my communications are being received by the intended recipient/s.
( I have always been polite and respectful in my contacts and the council can’t say otherwise). I simply won’t ‘GO AWAY’.
The council, by various means and fabrications have simply ‘closed down’ all my contact with them.

My local councillors, making excuse after excuse, definitely do not want to get involved, neither does my MP.

This entire situation is genuinely a never ending nightmare.

If anyone can confirm with absolute certainty that unauthorised deliberate exhumation is not a criminal act but a civil act this at least would help with contacting the appropriate legal firm.
(As a matter of interest my previous solicitor said as the situation was a criminal matter he was not experienced enough to proceed further).
Who do I believe!
Chloechadwel.