Defence advice county court parking claim

[Smn]

Hi I’’ve sent the CPR 31.14 and have sent VCS (vehicle control services) a SAR and acknowledged the claim.
i presume i need to build the defence now, can anyone suggest how to do this?
my argument is that the first I’ve heard of these claims from 4 yrs ago is the claim form, at the time of the alleged offence 4 people were insured for the car , none can remember if they had a windscreen ticket that they didn’t action
many thanks

[ostell]

Sent a VCS? You mean SAR ?

Really need the NTK

[Smn]

Sent a VCS? You mean SAR ?

Really need the NTK

Apologies for my lack of experience/knowledge....what’s the NTK?

[Aged William]

Notice To Keeper

Explained here:
https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/not...mains%20unpaid


And see paragraphs 8 and/or 9 for the legal definition:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...timeline=false

[ostell]

Need the Notice to Keeper to find out why they are claiming from the keeper. They can't claim from the driver as they don't know who that was (and keep it that way) so are trying to recover from the keeper. They can only claim if they comply fully with the requirements of Schedule 4. Which is why the NTK is required to see if they did comply.

If you don't get the details then you will have to tell the court that there is no response to your CPR 31.14 request and you ask the court to be allowed to modify your defence after the details are available and at the claimants expense.

If they are claiming interest the object to the amount as they have unfairly delayed taking action in order to increase the value of the claim.

There is an outline defence in the SHorcuts panel on this page.

[Smn]

Notice To Keeper

Explained here:
https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/not...mains%20unpaid


And see paragraphs 8 and/or 9 for the legal definition:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...timeline=false

Thanks for your help. I have just received copies of the PCN and NTK, they seem worded in line with the legal definition and they are dated within the time frame in 2017, with a letter before claim in may 2020, stating delivery method of 2nd class post. I categorically did not receive any of these notices previously and i have been at the same address continuously . I dont see what prevents them just printing these letters now and saying they were sent.
In light of the above does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed?
Many thanks

[Smn]

Need the Notice to Keeper to find out why they are claiming from the keeper. They can't claim from the keeper as they don't know who that was (and keep it that way) so are trying to recover from the keeper. They can only claim if they comply fully with the requirements of Schedule 4. Which is why the NTK is required to see if they did comply.

If you don't get the details then you will have to tell the court that there is no response to your CPR 31.14 request and you ask the court to be allowed to modify your defence after the details are available and at the claimants expense.

If they are claiming interest the object to the amount as they have unfairly delayed taking action in order to increase the value of the claim.

There is an outline defence in the SHorcuts panel on this page.

Thanks for your help. I have just received copies of the PCN and NTK, they seem worded in line with the legal definition and they are dated within the time frame in 2017, with a letter before claim in may 2020, stating delivery method of 2nd class post. I categorically did not receive any of these notices previously and i have been at the same address continuously . I dont see what prevents them just printing these letters now and saying they were sent.
In light of the above does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed?
Many thanks

[ostell]

Nothing prevents them saying they sent them but can they actually show they sent them? That's why I always suggest sending with a free certificate of posting.

Post up a redacted copy of the alleged PCN and NTK for others to see. Leave the dates

[Smn]

BD650D27-38D0-4CDD-84FF-120204AECE4D.jpeg Here are the PCN and reminders and NTK as well as responses to SAR

[Smn]

Nothing prevents them saying they sent them but can they actually show they sent them? That's why I always suggest sending with a free certificate of posting.

Post up a redacted copy of the alleged PCN and NTK for others to see. Leave the dates

As requested
thanks again

[ostell]

They have failed to give the warning of keeper liability in the format prescribed by POFA 9 (2) (f) and there is no period of parking given

What did the signs say?

[Smn]

They have failed to give the warning of keeper liability in the format prescribed by POFA 9 (2) (f) and there is no period of parking given

What did the signs say?

Small print not legible on the copy they provided but here it is

[ostell]

Prohibiting sign

The signage in the car park is of a “forbidding” nature. It is limited to cars displaying a valid permit only and therefore the terms cannot apply to cars without a permit because the signage does not offer an invitation to park on certain terms. The terms are forbidding. This means that there was never a contractual relationship. I refer you to the following case law: PCM-UK v Bull et all B4GF26K6 [2016], UKPC v Masterson B4GF26K6[2016], Horizon Parking v Mr J C5GF17X2 [2016] – In all three of these cases the signage was found to be forbidding and thus only a trespass had occurred and would be a matter for the landowner.

[Smn]

Prohibiting sign

The signage in the car park is of a “forbidding” nature. It is limited to cars displaying a valid permit only and therefore the terms cannot apply to cars without a permit because the signage does not offer an invitation to park on certain terms. The terms are forbidding. This means that there was never a contractual relationship. I refer you to the following case law: PCM-UK v Bull et all B4GF26K6 [2016], UKPC v Masterson B4GF26K6[2016], Horizon Parking v Mr J C5GF17X2 [2016] – In all three of these cases the signage was found to be forbidding and thus only a trespass had occurred and would be a matter for the landowner.

Excellent, thank you. I’ll write a defense and post it for comment if that’s ok?

[Smn]

They have failed to give the warning of keeper liability in the format prescribed by POFA 9 (2) (f) and there is no period of parking given

What did the signs say?

Hi Ostell
the NTK refers to section C on the back, please see a photo of the back including section C highlighted
the PCN says period of parking (including remaining at the the Car Park/site) immediately preceding the contravention time specified in this notice ie 18:00 they have sent photos of the parked car with a time stamp of 10 mins before this

Does the above change your view on the defense?
many thanks yet again