Excessive Levy

[Guest]

Hi. Have had car taken by bailiff for a £1043.09 debt, which I acknowledge and do not dispute.
Following costs the debt now stands at £2642.57.
However the vehicle they have taken is worth £7500 (I stress this is market value NOT sentimental value).
I received the notice of sale and somewhat conveniently the bailiff has valued vehicle him/herself at £2990. Do I have any sort of claim concerning excessive levy? 700% on original debt or almost 300% inclusive of fees??
Car is due for sale on Friday 16th October. A net loss of £4500 in addition to all costs and original debt being repaid seems a little harsh, even though I am at fault?
Any advice of what I can do would be most appreciated?
Please??
Thanks

[ploddertom]

Items sold at auction only realise a fraction of their true worth - 10% or if lucky 20%. Did they also seize the keys and/or logbook? There will also be the auction fees added to what you owe.
When they seized the vehicle were you given an opportunity to settle? Ts also nothing to stop you repurchasing the vehicle at auction.

I assume given the size of the fees this was done by a High Court Enforcement Agent. Would you care to tell us the story behind all this?

[Dave D]

The background to this is it is a Utility bill from a previous address. I moved in in 2008 and left in 2017. From 2008-2010 everything as normal, but from then onward until moving out Severn Trent did not send me a bill. Over time and two changes of address, the matter was forgotten until a bailiff came and seized my car. No negotiations no recourse, tough luck. I am aware of the notice of enforcement law. Bailiff claims to have posted by hand, I have not received it personally, the only possible way I've received it is as it wouldn't have had a stamp, I've mistook it as junk mail and completely bypassed it.

[Dave D]

Apologies for double post, but reason for me asking question in first place were as follows..

Taking control of goods worth worth 175% of the debt would be treated as excessive levy, Merry v Lovell [1888] The Times November 16 3g QBD

Taking control of a single article (e.g. a vehicle) having a value that is more than 300% of the debt being recovered is excessive, Sullivan v Bishop [1826] 2 C&P 359 11

I have tried doing a bit of homework.

[ploddertom]

I can assure you that looking at old case law has no relevance these days and in any case you have to disabuse yourself of the items worth. The value would be looked at in purely trade terms - you may need to look at Glass's guide to get a comparison what a motor trader may offer. Value will also be reflected in whether keys or V5 are included. On top of this the Auctioneer must be truthful and will often inform purchasers that it is a Bailiff repossession - all of these things will reduce value.

Before removing your vehicle it should have been immobilised first for a period of at least 2 hours to give you time to get the relevant monies together to pay the outstanding debt. If after 2 hours nothing is forthcoming then it can be removed. As for the Notice of Enforcement was it delivered to your current address and have you asked for proof of same when it was delivered - only a time stamped photograph would be acceptable. If however this is DCBL then they have form for not sending NoE out.

[islandgirl]

If the car is worth 7.5k pay the debt and get it back before 16th Oct? Then you can look at any formal complaint it may be possible to make.

[Dave D]

OK. As this is not my area of expertise.I can only ask the obvious. What the auction raises is something I have no control over, surely that's the bailiffs gamble. If they want payment in full, I have the means to pay debt in full, but unfortunately not before the auction date. It surely isn't my responsibility to cover any risk by providing goods for auction at double, treble or more value in case the auction has an off day.
What is to stop a bailiff taking an item worth £5000 to clear a £50 debt? Common sense tells you that if I don't have the means to pay £2500 how are you supposed to stomach a £7500 loss?
I have not once called the bailiff a liar concerning a Notice of Enforcement I admit I may have had it put through door, then again I may not I can't prove either way and I doubt they can either, but this all fell on me on the same day at 07.00am and car clamped at 07.20am. Even if I had means to pay I couldn't get to a bank or anywhere as bailiff would not remove clamp. (Bear in mind at the time said bailiff wasnt aware I couldn't pay). I was given no alternative. In my opinion, the bailiff knew he was going to take car before he made contact.

[Dave D]

In response to Plodderton the cars market value I quoted is trade price according to both Glass's guide and Parkers. Private sale valuation, again by both guides is in excess of £9000.

[Dave D]

In response to Islandgirl. If that were an option, I agree, but the earliest I could be in a position to pay would be when back in full time work following current Covid restrictions. In any case if I had it, would it be wise to part with it, when tomorrow we could be told we are in full lockdown or even I receive a call from track and trace and have to self isolate, bearing in mind I can't work from home and would not qualify for the £500 government aid which no matter what wouldn't be paid until December if I did.

[ploddertom]

There is one way of trying, and that is to speak to the Judgment Claimant - after all they are the ones ultimately responsible for all of this. Inform them you are in a position to pay the debt but not until whatever date you can. Ask them to contact the Bailiff and ask to postpone the sale until this date making it plain that should you fail to clear it you will be responsible for all additional charges that may become due. Sometimes the larger companies who have contracts with the Enforcement Co's may be able to do a deal. It's always worth a try.

Shame you have left it so long as there was always the possibility this could all have been overturned had you sought help earlier

[Dave D]

I'm in no way suggesting I'm a victim, the debt is owed, I'm resoonsible, it just seems to take a £7500 hit plus replacing the vehicle which is a must, (I work nights 13 miles away with no direct public transport during daytime let alone night) so by time you up and running for £1000 odd quid debt, has cost best part of 10 times that. Seems disproportionate to say the least.

[ploddertom]

What I was suggesting is that had you challenged this at the outset then you may not be facing what you are now. From what you have said all Court paperwork appears to have gone to an old address and suspect Judgment by Default was awarded and it seems you knew nothing until the Bailiff turned up. This in itself would have been enough to have applied for Set Aside coupled with a Stay of Execution against the Writ to prevent the car from having been taken or sold. You would only have had a narrow window of opportunity to have done this and that may have passed now if the sale is imminent.

You have to note that the Bailiff is not concerned about how you get to or from work or what the actual value of the vehicle is. He is commanded by the Court to seize and sell goods in the absence of payment. You could try going for an urgent Hearing - costs £255 - but could also be told you are too late, if you are going to think about this then it must be done tomorrow.

[Dave D]

There's a lot of things I should have done in life. The easiest way to spot mistakes is after the event. From there you can spot everybody else's too. It looks pretty much like I'm taking this one on the chin. I don't like it, over time I'd hope to consider it a lesson learnt. Doesn't feel like it at the moment. You win some, you lose some. It's the runner up medal for me on this one.
Thanks for the time and advice, it is appreciated even if tone of post may not come across as such. I can see myself the genuine help people such as Plodderton give on here and though things haven't worked out in my favour it doesn't mean they can't work out for someone else.

If a mod wishes to close this on my behalf, feel free.
Thankyou.

[Dave D]

As this isn't closed, quick update. I took chance using Resolve website providing evidence of suspected excessive levy (two pages of current Auto Trader ads, all of same model of car with year and mileage variations) and took matter up directly with Severn Trent. Turns out I undervalued vehicle myself. It's worth 9k!! As a result my complaint was upheld and car is back on drive. Changed tactics and instead of sympathy plea, I put forward that bailiff hadn't acted in sole interest of creditor, but also in own interest of making a profit. The fact goods taken were 900% of initial debt, there was no reasonable reason they should be taken. All bailiffs fees waived, on condition I clear debt with Severn Trent within 7 days of 13th October.

Maybe Severn Trent aren't quite the (insert offensive term here) I'd assumed they were????

I paid debt in full this morning 15th October.

Result!!