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Cabot / Mortimer Clarke Solicitors v Me - Statue Barred?

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  • #1

    Cabot / Mortimer Clarke Solicitors v Me - Statue Barred?

    Hi,

    I was sent a Court order back in 2015 for an old Debt, originally started in 2011 and ceased paying in 2012, this was for a Personal Loan from Lloyds Banking Group. At the time I went through the process with the help of this forum asking for certain information from them and declaring I was defending the case. Mortimer Clarke Solicitors acting on behalf of Cabot said they would get back to me... Yesterday I received an email from Mortimer Clarke Solicitors with all of the necessary information, well almost all, they have not provided a copy of the original credit agreement and have instead added;

    Our client is not able to provide a copy of the original credit agreement. However, please find enclosed a reconstituted copy of the credit agreement. Please note that under the Financial Conduct Authority’s Consumer Credit sourcebook at rule 13.1.4, a firm is able to reconstitute a copy of the agreement, and there is no obligation to provide a copy which includes a copy of the signature. This was also confirmed in the case of Carey v HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417.

    The default notice was 07/11/2012 with a Final Demand 24/12/2012. This feels to me having looked around this forum that this should be statue barred? I have made no payment since this date and have no correspondence other than in 2015 when I disputed the claim. I would appreciate any help as always


    Thanks
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Hi - if the court claim was issued in 2015, then the debt would have been 3 years from default expiry at that point, so it would not have been time barred then.
    The claim sounds like it went 'stayed' after you submitted your defence back in 2015. Are you saying that they have literally only now responded with the CCA documents. They would certainly need the permission of the court to lift such a long stay.
    They are allowed to send a reconstituted agreement as per Carey, but it has to be an accurate recon, right name, right address, right credit terms, APR, etc.
    "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

    I am proud to have co-founded LegalBeagles in 2007

    If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page
    If you wish to book an appointment with me to discuss your credit agreement, please email kate@legalbeaglesgroup. com

    Comment

    • #3
      Darn it, thank you for your message.

      Yes they emailed me yesterday and I have copied and pasted the letter sent to me below. They asked for me to get back to them in 28 days however as I said I received the email yesterday despite the letter having a date of 24/07/2020, I have received nothing through the post from them. The dates from our previous correspondence when the case was 'stayed' as you say are below in the letter - 21.06.2015.

      This is for a significant amount - c£14,000 do you think I should get professional assistance?



      We know that everyone’s day-to-day lives have been impacted as a result of Covid-19 outbreak.

      Whilst this letter provides you with our client’s position in respect of your defence, our client wants to let you know that it is here to help you through this difficult time.

      The Agreement was assigned to our client by LLOYDS TSB which meant our client needed to contact LLOYDS TSB to obtain the documentation and information needed to respond to your defence. As a result, it has taken some time for us to come back to you.

      This letter sets out our client’s position in response to your defence and encloses the following:
      • Reconstituted Agreement
      • Statement of Account from the original creditor
      • Screenshot from the original creditor’s system evidencing that a Default Notice was sent
      • Notice of Assignment
      • Statement of Account from this firm (signed)

      Our client is not able to provide a copy of the original credit agreement. However, please find enclosed a reconstituted copy of the credit agreement. Please note that under the Financial Conduct Authority’s Consumer Credit sourcebook at rule 13.1.4, a firm is able to reconstitute a copy of the agreement, and there is no obligation to provide a copy which includes a copy of the signature. This was also confirmed in the case of Carey v HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417.

      Your Defence

      In your defence you state that our client’s statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable you to assess your position.
      You deny that the original creditor served you with a Default Notice pursuant to Section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

      You state that on 21.06.2015 you sent a request for documentation pursuant to Civil Procedure Rules Part 31.14. You say that you did not receive a response.

      You say that on 21.06.2015 you also sent a formal request for documentation to our client pursuant to Section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. You state that our client has failed to comply with this request.

      Our client’s position

      The screenshot from the original creditor’s system evidences that the original creditor sent you a Default Notice in accordance with the relevant legislation.

      Our client’s position is that the documentation enclosed has satisfied both your request for documentation.

      Our client also confirms that the documentation evidences that you entered into the agreement, benefitted from the credit provided, defaulted on the matter and that our client was assigned the matter with a balance outstanding.


      Our client considers you fully liable for the outstanding balance.

      The way forward

      We know that the impact of the Covid-19 is wide-ranging. We want to understand if you have been affected in way that affects your ability to address this matter, so that we can make sure that we provide any help or support you may need.

      Please complete and return the income and expenditure form enclosed within 28 days of the date of this letter. We will then be able to and gain a better understanding of your current financial situation.

      At the bottom of the income and expenditure form is an “additional notes” section. We suggest that you put as much information as you can in this box in order for our client to gain a better understanding of your current overall circumstances. Examples of this could include your current employment status, housing situation or medical circumstances. The more information that you can provide this firm, means the greater understanding both this firm and our client will have about your situation.

      Comment

      • #4
        pt2537 14k claim that has been stayed for five years. Thoughts?!

        "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

        I am proud to have co-founded LegalBeagles in 2007

        If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page
        If you wish to book an appointment with me to discuss your credit agreement, please email kate@legalbeaglesgroup. com

        Comment

        • #5
          Sorry it's been a couple of days and not had a response from the chap you have tagged, is there anyone else you could suggest I speak with? Issue I have, well one ha, is that the date on the email they sent was for over a month ago, 24/07/2020, and said I had 28 days to respond... although the email came through on Monday, 24th August... is it worth me responding to their email explaining I've not received any post and requesting a further 28 days?

          Comment

          • #6
            pt2537 Any chance you can take a look if you missed this one. X
            "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

            I am proud to have co-founded LegalBeagles in 2007

            If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page
            If you wish to book an appointment with me to discuss your credit agreement, please email kate@legalbeaglesgroup. com

            Comment

            • #7
              Yep sorry crazy few days, reading now
              I work for Roach Pittis Solicitors. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

              If you need to contact me please email me on Pt@roachpittis.co.uk .

              I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

              You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

              Comment

              • #8
                Right, problem is if you have a Judgment against you then a s77 request wont work. The duty to provide a copy applies only to debts where there is money due under the agreement (see s77(3) CCA ) so you wouldnt automatically be entitled to get a copy of the credit agreement

                now i think its important to know what is happening here with this matter, if a claim was issued in 2015 then one has to ask why you didnt make an application for discovery , giving them 5 years is like sticking your head in a lions den and waiting for it to bite your head off, a bad idea.

                i certainly dont think limitation has expired, so your now looking for some other statutory breach or error.
                I work for Roach Pittis Solicitors. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

                If you need to contact me please email me on Pt@roachpittis.co.uk .

                I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

                You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by NeilC2015 View Post
                  Hi,
                  At the time I went through the process with the help of this forum asking for certain information from them and declaring I was defending the case. Mortimer Clarke Solicitors acting on behalf of Cabot said they would get back to me...
                  pt2537 Looks like CCA and CPR requests were made at the time (2015) - our response templates have been standard for way longer. It's just literally taken 5 years to get a response.
                  "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

                  I am proud to have co-founded LegalBeagles in 2007

                  If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page
                  If you wish to book an appointment with me to discuss your credit agreement, please email kate@legalbeaglesgroup. com

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Yes, CCA and CPR requests were made at the time (2015) and they have only just come back with the information covering those requests this week... Is this not an application for discovery or did I miss something 5 years ago?

                    Anything to get my head out of that Lions mouth is greatly appreciated

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Also, forgive my lack of knowledge in terms of terminology but I don't feel I have a judgement against me as this was stayed and therefore no CCJ was given.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Correct - you do not have a CCJ and your CPR request sent 5 yrs ago is 'discovery'.
                        pt2537 may consider that perhaps a pre-emptive strike application from you would have been warranted but let's see what he suggests. As far as I can tell, you're not necessarily in the lions mouth but it's taking a good look at you.
                        "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

                        I am proud to have co-founded LegalBeagles in 2007

                        If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page
                        If you wish to book an appointment with me to discuss your credit agreement, please email kate@legalbeaglesgroup. com

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Hi,

                          Sorry but I'm still confused as to next steps following on from above. As stated I sent CPR request 5 yrs ago as discovery but they have only just got back to me with the documents. I've heard nothing since their email dated - 24/07/2020 but keen to act before I get another court letter etc

                          Any help greatly appreciated


                          Thanks

                          Comment

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