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My apologies in advance if this is not something this forum helps with but I have run into a dealer who has sold us a used car which we want to return and get full refund because problems we highlighted before purchase and claimed to have been fixed are not fixed and we have found other issues such as punctured tyres and misalignment etc. making it a car not fit for purpose and not as described and dealer is not fixing with guarantee of that resolving the problem but also not refunding the money and we are loosing sleep over it as we cant drive the car as it is and we are clear we want our refund the way tone of the dealer has changed after purchase.
Below letter i typed using which.co.uk website and request you to advice if possible as this is stressing me out completely.
I am sorry its a long letter but I had to capture full history. We paid by debit card. and its within 30 days. In fact i informed back about the problem not being fixed within 6 hours as we collected car around 930pm and I realised while driving back that problem persisted so could not sleep as i had paid being told problem is fixed but it wasnt so at 4am in morning I texted (whatsapped) to reverse the transaction.
21/09/2019
Dear Sir or Madam,
REFERENCE: Shah/mycar mychoice-Honda Jazz
I purchased the Honda Jazz from mycar mychoice. At the point of purchase I paid £2750.
The Honda Jazz is not as described. On 15th September around 5pm, we went to a dealer office named Automax (165c Boston Rd, Hanwell, London W7 3QJ) on the side of Esso petrol pump which was address given to us by phone number (07534697849) we called via Autotrader website for viewing a car. Upon inspection and a very short lane (in an industrial estate), car steering felt stiff (unlike to another Honda Jazz model which we already own) and we informed immediately and dealer said they will get it fixed. We requested a new 12 months MOT done as well as agreed a price of £2750 with those two conditions, steering problem fixed so that car drives smooth and steering feels again like comparative power steering and MOT completed with no advisories. After reaching back home, I reminded the dealer again via Whatsapp message to ensure that steering problem is fixed before he hands the car to us and the dealer (Mr.Tosif) acknowledged as well. Following day (16th September), I was informed that MOT has been completed and steering problem fixed by changing fluid and car was ready for collection. We collected the car from Mr.Tosif's home address (1 Beacon house, Taywood road, UB5 6GU) at around 845pm ish. I was again informed that steering problem is fixed and MOT is sorted as well and assured that i should not worry and if there is any problem after purchase, dealer will fix it. I made the payment and drove the car home. During the drive, I did not find any difference to the steering stiffness at all. I knew that inspite of assurance, the problem had not been fixed as it was not satisfactory and therefore I could not sleep thinking we have been wrongly sold a car which has faults resulting in that experience. This was important and critical problem for us to be resolved given that my wife is going to drive the car and she has recently been diagnosed with arthritis in hands and it makes it even worst for her and this was informed to dealer before we even purchased and was acknowledged but unfortunately the problem persisted and therefore at 4am in the morning, I sent a request to dealer to reverse the transaction as I was convinced that dealer is saying they have fixed but they had not as this was already informed. Dealer did not acknowledge the problem and kept saying they will not refund the amount and they will deduct £150 if we want the refund which I found outside the consumer rights considering the problem was highlighted before purchase and we were informed that its been fixed but it clearly had not been fixed so we were informed wrongly and car was not as described. I then spoke to trading standards to understand my rights and they said that I was within my right to ask for refund on ground of 1. breach of contract (car not being fixed as promised) and 2. car not only fit for purpose as car is dragging on one side but also difficult to steer because of stiffness. I informed the dealer that I need refund and they asked me mechanic advise. Any local mechanic charges and therefore I went back to dealer saying they will have to bear the cost of alternative mechanics report and dealer refused and I explained that its part of my rights as it would be consequential loss and dealer stopped responding. I then on 21st September morning checked with a friend of mine who is an ex honda sales guy to understand what could be going on and he admitted that there is a general problem with Honda jazz steering for 08 models and he said that there could be other things as well like tyres, air, alignment etc. Upon that I checked that in 5 days of not driving the car, the tyre pressure had gone down on 3 tyres very low suggesting that not only they sold us a car with steering problem but also the tyres may be punctured at the point of time of sale because I had to put the air back in and while putting the air in on further inspection I could evidence that front tyre was misaligned on passenger side and on the driver side the front tyre had very bad wear and tear suggesting that car is definitely not functioning as normal. I informed the dealer to fix those and he said that I have to guarantee that will fix the problem of steering upon which I had to tell him that I am trying to help him otherwise as a consumer I am not supposed to tell him where the problems could be and he has failed to fix the problem and he has to decide if he wants to invest money trying to replace with new tyres and ensure there is no puncture and perform alignment to see if it fixes the problem OR refund in full. Its his choice and he has again stopped responding. I now am convinced that this dealer has sold us a car which is not fit for purpose, has faulty mechanisms and is definitely not as promised and therefore not to satisfaction at all and he is not willing to satisfy the promises he made which is giving us a fault free car as promised and given the kind of communications I have faced so far, I am convinced that I would like to process my refund on immediate basis and as per my right, get my money back asap. And dealer should arrange to collect the car and papers back. I understand refund is within my rights as i am convinced that currently there are problems which are known and dealer is making it difficult for us so in future this car will have problems and we will be facing more difficulties which we are not prepared to..
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 makes it an implied term of the contract I have with mycar mychoice that goods be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality.
As you are in breach of contract and and I've owned the product for less than 30 days I am within my statutory rights to ask for a full refund of the original cost paid.
I await confirmation that you will provide the remedy set out above within 14 days of the date of this letter.
Yours faithfully,
Jigar Shah
Please also see the email trail.
Jigar Shah
Sat 21/09/2019 14:39
Please can you respond and confirm your final answer?
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From: Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 11:37:12 AM
To: mycar mychoice <mycarmychoice1@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
Hi
As you will appreciate i am not a mechanic so I can't guarantee that new tyres with alignment will solve the issue. I spoke to a friend who is an ex Honda sales and he also said that jazz has a common steering problem.
I am only suggesting because I can see the front tyre bold from inside badly and other tyre badly misaligned visibly but fixing new tyres and alignment will solve it or not I can say for sure. Already had to put in air which in two tyres was below 10 suggesting puncture.
You offered that you will not deduct anything if I can prove there is a problem and all I am trying to say is that there is a definite problem but if you want a formal report it's a cost which unfortunately I don't want to bear so offerring an easier route as I don't want you to bear extra cost neither I want to live with a car which is clearly not fit for purpose.
For me as I keep mentioning this issue of stiff steering does need to be solved or its better that we get our refund.
If you are prepared to reverse the transaction and deduct your Mot price (not more than £35) I am still open for that option as opposed to trial and error.
I still feel if we can amicably resolve this through a refund it will be much simpler but that requires your support. Refund £2715. I am happy with that. If not we will keep arguing and waste time which is not going to solve the problem.
I also don't want to leave any bad reviews etc because as you know we are a small family and just needed a car which worked. If there was no problem we won't have bothered at all I can assure.
Please let me know.
Regards
Jigar
Get Outlook for Android
From: mycar mychoice <mycarmychoice1@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 10:26:35 AM
To: Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
Hi,
I am more then happy to do but if this will not satisfy you and you still decided to go ahead with refund this cost will be deducted from refund.
If you are happy please confirm by email i will arrange both things you requested.Tyers might just need air try that first if still not making difference and we can try alignment.
Thank you
Tosif
On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:40 AM Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com> wrote:
Below letter i typed using which.co.uk website and request you to advice if possible as this is stressing me out completely.
I am sorry its a long letter but I had to capture full history. We paid by debit card. and its within 30 days. In fact i informed back about the problem not being fixed within 6 hours as we collected car around 930pm and I realised while driving back that problem persisted so could not sleep as i had paid being told problem is fixed but it wasnt so at 4am in morning I texted (whatsapped) to reverse the transaction.
21/09/2019
Dear Sir or Madam,
REFERENCE: Shah/mycar mychoice-Honda Jazz
I purchased the Honda Jazz from mycar mychoice. At the point of purchase I paid £2750.
The Honda Jazz is not as described. On 15th September around 5pm, we went to a dealer office named Automax (165c Boston Rd, Hanwell, London W7 3QJ) on the side of Esso petrol pump which was address given to us by phone number (07534697849) we called via Autotrader website for viewing a car. Upon inspection and a very short lane (in an industrial estate), car steering felt stiff (unlike to another Honda Jazz model which we already own) and we informed immediately and dealer said they will get it fixed. We requested a new 12 months MOT done as well as agreed a price of £2750 with those two conditions, steering problem fixed so that car drives smooth and steering feels again like comparative power steering and MOT completed with no advisories. After reaching back home, I reminded the dealer again via Whatsapp message to ensure that steering problem is fixed before he hands the car to us and the dealer (Mr.Tosif) acknowledged as well. Following day (16th September), I was informed that MOT has been completed and steering problem fixed by changing fluid and car was ready for collection. We collected the car from Mr.Tosif's home address (1 Beacon house, Taywood road, UB5 6GU) at around 845pm ish. I was again informed that steering problem is fixed and MOT is sorted as well and assured that i should not worry and if there is any problem after purchase, dealer will fix it. I made the payment and drove the car home. During the drive, I did not find any difference to the steering stiffness at all. I knew that inspite of assurance, the problem had not been fixed as it was not satisfactory and therefore I could not sleep thinking we have been wrongly sold a car which has faults resulting in that experience. This was important and critical problem for us to be resolved given that my wife is going to drive the car and she has recently been diagnosed with arthritis in hands and it makes it even worst for her and this was informed to dealer before we even purchased and was acknowledged but unfortunately the problem persisted and therefore at 4am in the morning, I sent a request to dealer to reverse the transaction as I was convinced that dealer is saying they have fixed but they had not as this was already informed. Dealer did not acknowledge the problem and kept saying they will not refund the amount and they will deduct £150 if we want the refund which I found outside the consumer rights considering the problem was highlighted before purchase and we were informed that its been fixed but it clearly had not been fixed so we were informed wrongly and car was not as described. I then spoke to trading standards to understand my rights and they said that I was within my right to ask for refund on ground of 1. breach of contract (car not being fixed as promised) and 2. car not only fit for purpose as car is dragging on one side but also difficult to steer because of stiffness. I informed the dealer that I need refund and they asked me mechanic advise. Any local mechanic charges and therefore I went back to dealer saying they will have to bear the cost of alternative mechanics report and dealer refused and I explained that its part of my rights as it would be consequential loss and dealer stopped responding. I then on 21st September morning checked with a friend of mine who is an ex honda sales guy to understand what could be going on and he admitted that there is a general problem with Honda jazz steering for 08 models and he said that there could be other things as well like tyres, air, alignment etc. Upon that I checked that in 5 days of not driving the car, the tyre pressure had gone down on 3 tyres very low suggesting that not only they sold us a car with steering problem but also the tyres may be punctured at the point of time of sale because I had to put the air back in and while putting the air in on further inspection I could evidence that front tyre was misaligned on passenger side and on the driver side the front tyre had very bad wear and tear suggesting that car is definitely not functioning as normal. I informed the dealer to fix those and he said that I have to guarantee that will fix the problem of steering upon which I had to tell him that I am trying to help him otherwise as a consumer I am not supposed to tell him where the problems could be and he has failed to fix the problem and he has to decide if he wants to invest money trying to replace with new tyres and ensure there is no puncture and perform alignment to see if it fixes the problem OR refund in full. Its his choice and he has again stopped responding. I now am convinced that this dealer has sold us a car which is not fit for purpose, has faulty mechanisms and is definitely not as promised and therefore not to satisfaction at all and he is not willing to satisfy the promises he made which is giving us a fault free car as promised and given the kind of communications I have faced so far, I am convinced that I would like to process my refund on immediate basis and as per my right, get my money back asap. And dealer should arrange to collect the car and papers back. I understand refund is within my rights as i am convinced that currently there are problems which are known and dealer is making it difficult for us so in future this car will have problems and we will be facing more difficulties which we are not prepared to..
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 makes it an implied term of the contract I have with mycar mychoice that goods be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality.
As you are in breach of contract and and I've owned the product for less than 30 days I am within my statutory rights to ask for a full refund of the original cost paid.
I await confirmation that you will provide the remedy set out above within 14 days of the date of this letter.
Yours faithfully,
Jigar Shah
Please also see the email trail.
Jigar Shah
Sat 21/09/2019 14:39
- mycar mychoice
Please can you respond and confirm your final answer?
Get Outlook for Android
From: Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 11:37:12 AM
To: mycar mychoice <mycarmychoice1@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
Hi
As you will appreciate i am not a mechanic so I can't guarantee that new tyres with alignment will solve the issue. I spoke to a friend who is an ex Honda sales and he also said that jazz has a common steering problem.
I am only suggesting because I can see the front tyre bold from inside badly and other tyre badly misaligned visibly but fixing new tyres and alignment will solve it or not I can say for sure. Already had to put in air which in two tyres was below 10 suggesting puncture.
You offered that you will not deduct anything if I can prove there is a problem and all I am trying to say is that there is a definite problem but if you want a formal report it's a cost which unfortunately I don't want to bear so offerring an easier route as I don't want you to bear extra cost neither I want to live with a car which is clearly not fit for purpose.
For me as I keep mentioning this issue of stiff steering does need to be solved or its better that we get our refund.
If you are prepared to reverse the transaction and deduct your Mot price (not more than £35) I am still open for that option as opposed to trial and error.
I still feel if we can amicably resolve this through a refund it will be much simpler but that requires your support. Refund £2715. I am happy with that. If not we will keep arguing and waste time which is not going to solve the problem.
I also don't want to leave any bad reviews etc because as you know we are a small family and just needed a car which worked. If there was no problem we won't have bothered at all I can assure.
Please let me know.
Regards
Jigar
Get Outlook for Android
From: mycar mychoice <mycarmychoice1@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 10:26:35 AM
To: Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
Hi,
I am more then happy to do but if this will not satisfy you and you still decided to go ahead with refund this cost will be deducted from refund.
If you are happy please confirm by email i will arrange both things you requested.Tyers might just need air try that first if still not making difference and we can try alignment.
Thank you
Tosif
On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:40 AM Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi
I have inspected today morning in day light and have found that tyres front are needing replacement and realignment. This could potentially fix the issue or improve the stiff steering and car not rolling freely. I don't know how this car passed without those as tyres needed air so might be punctured.
Would you be willing to fix the new tyres and realign to try and fix and we can solve this problem we are facing and if it improves I will be happy to keep the car.
Please let me know urgently.
Regards
Jigar
Get Outlook for Android
From: Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 5:41:03 PM
To: mycar mychoice <mycarmychoice1@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
I have waited and been patient enough.
I need a decision now because ones I instruct the lawyers there won't be turning back.
Let me know by this evening your final decision. I have plenty of evidences including your own texts and don't be in any impression that you. An threaten me. Please don't do that again otherwise I will not be afraid to report further harassment claim if you continue to put me under such unfair pressure for no fault of ours.
Get Outlook for Android
From: mycar mychoice <mycarmychoice1@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 5:27:20 PM
To: Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
Dear Customer,
Thank you for you email we will look into this matter and get back to you in 7 working days.
Thank you
Tosif
Tosif
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:49 PM Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com> wrote:
I have inspected today morning in day light and have found that tyres front are needing replacement and realignment. This could potentially fix the issue or improve the stiff steering and car not rolling freely. I don't know how this car passed without those as tyres needed air so might be punctured.
Would you be willing to fix the new tyres and realign to try and fix and we can solve this problem we are facing and if it improves I will be happy to keep the car.
Please let me know urgently.
Regards
Jigar
Get Outlook for Android
From: Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 5:41:03 PM
To: mycar mychoice <mycarmychoice1@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
I have waited and been patient enough.
I need a decision now because ones I instruct the lawyers there won't be turning back.
Let me know by this evening your final decision. I have plenty of evidences including your own texts and don't be in any impression that you. An threaten me. Please don't do that again otherwise I will not be afraid to report further harassment claim if you continue to put me under such unfair pressure for no fault of ours.
Get Outlook for Android
From: mycar mychoice <mycarmychoice1@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 5:27:20 PM
To: Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
Dear Customer,
Thank you for you email we will look into this matter and get back to you in 7 working days.
Thank you
Tosif
Tosif
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:49 PM Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com> wrote:
We have informed that there was a problem and we were informed its been fixed and its not. This is in writing.
Car is not in satisfactory if its steering does not work and if the car holds back when you take the foot off the gas which we informed you.
I will start the process to start with diagnostics report and then a court claim to get all costs recovered because we were informed incorrectly that car has no problem whatsoever which is false information.
You have failed to meet the trading standards and I am within my consumer rights because we we were misinformed that car has been fixed.
My solicitor will also cost me so if I win those costs will be equally heavy so be prepared for the same as well and please don't threaten me next time.
I will also mention that we were informed about reviewing the reviews of automax and car was sold under other name and someone now calls me from automax to say they don't know me and I should not talk to them while you gave me the address of automax which is the name you used to tell me where to come and showed reviews of automax and then now charges are made under some other name with automax taking no responsibility.
I also feel reason for calling is to your residence was also part of fraud and will ensure that address and my kids evidences all go to the file.
I will now take it upto trading standards because this to me all sounds like complete fraud.
Jigar
Get Outlook for Android
From: mycar mychoice <mycarmychoice1@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 4:36:46 PM
To: Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
Dear Customer,
For you satisfaction if you want to carry out any check from any mechanic you can do so.
We will not bear any cost for that.
We already explained you that vehicle had no issues so unfortunately we can not offer any refund.
If you want to go through trading standards you are more then welcome to do so.
In case you decided to go that route just to inform you that our solicitor charges us £1500+ vat and if we won this case which we will this will be claim from your side. Second-hand car from a dealer
When you buy a second-hand car from a used-car dealership in the UK, you have rights under the Consumer Rights Act (which replaced the Sale of Goods Act from 1 October 2015). You should expect the car to:
It's important that you take into account the mileage, age and how the car is described to you.
Thank
Tosif
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 16:22, Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com> wrote:
To: info@automaxuk.co.uk
Subject: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
Hi Tausifbhai
As discussed over the WhatsApp messages dropping this email as being insisted.
Are you willing to settle between us or would you still want me to spend money to get you local mechanic advise because that will cost and that cost will be claimed as a consequencial cost and I will add my inconvenience cost as advised by trading standards as well.
I don't want to go into that long mater and fight so if you can refund and take the car back I will be happy.
Google email Id or whatsapp message doesn't mater. I have copied the same message we exchanged on WhatsApp and also have copied to your website email.
Please let me know. Please treat this with urgency.
Thanks.
Regards.
Jigar Shah
07808298684
Get Outlook for Android
Car is not in satisfactory if its steering does not work and if the car holds back when you take the foot off the gas which we informed you.
I will start the process to start with diagnostics report and then a court claim to get all costs recovered because we were informed incorrectly that car has no problem whatsoever which is false information.
You have failed to meet the trading standards and I am within my consumer rights because we we were misinformed that car has been fixed.
My solicitor will also cost me so if I win those costs will be equally heavy so be prepared for the same as well and please don't threaten me next time.
I will also mention that we were informed about reviewing the reviews of automax and car was sold under other name and someone now calls me from automax to say they don't know me and I should not talk to them while you gave me the address of automax which is the name you used to tell me where to come and showed reviews of automax and then now charges are made under some other name with automax taking no responsibility.
I also feel reason for calling is to your residence was also part of fraud and will ensure that address and my kids evidences all go to the file.
I will now take it upto trading standards because this to me all sounds like complete fraud.
Jigar
Get Outlook for Android
From: mycar mychoice <mycarmychoice1@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 4:36:46 PM
To: Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
Dear Customer,
For you satisfaction if you want to carry out any check from any mechanic you can do so.
We will not bear any cost for that.
We already explained you that vehicle had no issues so unfortunately we can not offer any refund.
If you want to go through trading standards you are more then welcome to do so.
In case you decided to go that route just to inform you that our solicitor charges us £1500+ vat and if we won this case which we will this will be claim from your side. Second-hand car from a dealer
When you buy a second-hand car from a used-car dealership in the UK, you have rights under the Consumer Rights Act (which replaced the Sale of Goods Act from 1 October 2015). You should expect the car to:
- be of satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage)
- meet any description given to you when you were buying it (whether in the ad or in discussions prior to sale)
- be fit for purpose (in this case, to get you from A to B safely)
It's important that you take into account the mileage, age and how the car is described to you.
Thank
Tosif
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 16:22, Jigar Shah <jigershah@hotmail.com> wrote:
To: info@automaxuk.co.uk
Subject: Honda Jazz Mr. SHAH
Hi Tausifbhai
As discussed over the WhatsApp messages dropping this email as being insisted.
Are you willing to settle between us or would you still want me to spend money to get you local mechanic advise because that will cost and that cost will be claimed as a consequencial cost and I will add my inconvenience cost as advised by trading standards as well.
I don't want to go into that long mater and fight so if you can refund and take the car back I will be happy.
Google email Id or whatsapp message doesn't mater. I have copied the same message we exchanged on WhatsApp and also have copied to your website email.
Please let me know. Please treat this with urgency.
Thanks.
Regards.
Jigar Shah
07808298684
Get Outlook for Android
