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PCN to registered keeper not driver

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  • PCN to registered keeper not driver

    Hi,
    ​​​​​I would appreciate some advise/assistance on the below please Thanks. Some images could not be uploaded due to size.
    Situation is the driver has 3 outstanding PCN 2 at debt collection stage with DCBL (from the TV show 'Can't pay take it away' ) and one still within the 14 days appeal for reduce amount stage.

    The driver parked in the usual car park but on 3 occasions was running late and forgot to call to buy a parking ticket. The car is registered to the driver's father so all the parking notices and debt collection letters are in his name. The driver has not responded back to any of the letters tickets at all.

    The driver wanted advice on possible defences.
    Driver has been parking in this car park for about a year but unfortunately was running late and genuinely forgot to pay. It is a car park where only pay by phone/online is aceppted.
    ​​​
    The car park is land of a broken building. There are two car parks on the same land separated by a broken wall in the middle. Both car parks use the same location code when registering car reg to buy a ticket. Signs in both car park state 'pay and display' but there is on one 'Pay and display' ticket machine which is out of order with a small sticker from Parkonomy giving instructions of how to pay on the phone/online if you don't have coins.

    The driver fears that as all the letters are in the fathers name and he has not responded back at all due to online comments Including giving the driver real name, but if this did go to court it would be the father/registered keeper going as its in his name? Could the driver give correct name before going court or could the driver turn up as he is the driver?

    The defense was going to be around the sign boards not being clear and some partially hidden. Also with the latest ticket received when the car was parked in the smaller car park where there is no 'pay and display machine' but signs saying pay and display and a little sign on The back wall which is a little covered by leaves stating 'pay by phone only' (image uploaded)

    What are your thoughts? is the driver putting the father at high risk of being in court by not owning up?

    I appreciate your comments and assistance.
    Attached Files
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Photos can be placed on an external site such imgur and linked to.

    copy of a redacted NTK would help

    Comment


    • #3
      https://m.imgur.com/a/pZXRP4x


      Hi,

      I have added two images of both sides of the notice to this link. Also no evidence has been provided by PPL.

      Comment


      • #4
        The RK is thinking about informing the parking Company of the drivers details but it has been more than 28days. Could the RK be held liable even if the driver details are provided after 28days?

        Comment


        • #5
          DCBL can be ignored if they are in simple debt collectors mode.

          What was the date of the event and the date the notice was received

          The registered keeper can name the driver right up to the issuance of a court claim, despite the parking companies trying to say otherwise. Why not send, from the keeper:

          Dear Sirs,

          I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

          You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give the invitation to keeper in the format prescribed by section 9 (2) (e) of the Act. You have also not stated the period of parking as required by 9 (2) (a) of the same act.

          You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

          I was not the driver at the time and as there is no legal requirement to idemtify the driver I will not be doing so.

          I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

          Yours etc

          First class mail with free certificate of posting from a post office

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi thanks for the reply. The event date was 26th April and ntk sent on 18th June by post. The first letter from DCBL 'notice of debt recovery" was issued on 18th July and the second letter from DCBL "legal recovery action' was issued on 7th August.
            ​​​​​​
            Thanks for that template, if I do send that then the RK will be at risk of attending court right? I want to minimise/ eliminate the risk of RK attending court as the driver was not the RK.

            Comment


            • #7
              I wish people would leave dates in!! Without a ticket on the windscreen they have to DELIVER the NTK within 14 days. With a windscreen ticket then the ticket must be delivered between days 28 and 56.

              So if there was no windscreen ticket then:

              Dear Sirs,

              I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

              You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

              There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

              Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

              Yours etc



              If there was a windscreen ticket then calculate if it is past day 56. Remember it is assumed 2 working days to deliver.

              If it gets to court then it will be your local court and in a small room connected to the court building. Nothing at all like what you see on TV

              Comment


              • #8
                Cheers, I will have a look at all the dates.

                The RK will not be happy if it does go to court and the RK is a family member of the driver which may cause problems of the RK was required at court. The driver prefers to fight this without risking the RK go to court.

                Will have a look at the dates on the letters hopefully its outside the 56days

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi below is an mail which was sent to the parking company appealing the most recent ticket and reply from parking Company . The ticket was from the same company but for a different part of the car park which is separated by a wall in the middle.

                  The reply was received on 27th September.
                  -----—----------------------------------------------------__----_
                  RK sent;

                  The registered keeper is appealing the parking notice issued for the following reasons:


                  -Unclear and Contradicting signs.

                  There are signs in the car park that state 'pay and display' but there is no pay and display machine on site. There is no instructions or direction or visibility of any pay machine.

                  The evidence shows a Sign which states 'pay by phone' but it is not clear and is partially covered by leaves. The sign is in a parking spot so completely hidden when large vehicle parked in front.

                  -There is no clear entrance sign stating pay by phone and pay by phone service was down.

                  -The registered keeper was not the driver at the time.

                  Please cancel this parking charge notice and seize to contact the registered keeper for the purposes of seeking any payment. If PPL continue to pursue the registered keeper for payment then a formal complaint for harresemnt will be made.


                  _________________________________________________


                  Thank you for your email.


                  I have read and investigated your particular appeal and unfortunately your claim has been unsuccessful for the following reasons:


                  You were issued with a parking charge notice for failure to pay for full duration of stay.

                  This is private pay and display car park which is pay by phone only when you parked as stated on the signs near to the ticket machine.

                  The Enforcement Officer was unable to verify any online or telephone payment for your parking session at the time the charge was issued.


                  It is your responsibility to make sure you are in receipt of payment confirmation before you leave the car park.


                  If you were experiencing problems making payment you should have telephoned the advertised helpline number for advice.

                  The online/telephone payment system was working on that day. If you were unable to make payment to park before leaving the car park it is your responsibility to move your vehicle and find alternative car parking where you can make payment. The signs advertise the online/telephone payment. There is no free car parking on this site.

                  Please see photographic evidence at www.payppl.co.uk

                  It would be very difficult to find free car parking on private land in the centre of Birmingham and besides the keeper has incurred several previous tickets so is aware of the conditions of parking.

                  The terms and conditions clearly state "By entering or remaining on this land you agree to abide by all of the terms and conditions.


                  You did not comply with the terms and conditions as you did not gain confirmation of payment before leaving the vehicle unattended.


                  We are not held responsible if you leave the car park without making payment first.


                  If you believe this decision is incorrect you are entitled to appeal to The Independent Appeals Service (IAS). In order to appeal, you will need your parking charge reference number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this email. Please visit www.theias.org for full details.


                  Please note that should you wish to appeal to The IAS you will be unable to pay at the reduced rate of £60.


                  To avoid further action you will need to make a payment of £100.00

                  This is the full rate as you failed to appeal within the 14 day discounted period, this needs to be paid within 14 days of the above date.

                  Failure to pay in the required time will incur further costs.

                  Payment can be made online at www.payppl.co.uk or on our 24 hour telephone payment line 0844 304 0103.


                  Yours Sincerely

                  Premier Parking Logistics


                  PLEASE NOTE YOUR APPEAL HAS BEEN REJECTED, WE ARE UNABLE TO ENTER INTO ANY FURTHER CORRESPONDENCE ON THIS MATTER.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi any further advice in this would be greatly appreciated

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So why weren't the POFA fails included in that appeal?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi,

                        That appeal was for the latest PCN at the car park on the other side with no ticket machine. I am not aware or pofa fails until your message early October.
                        Now I am thinking to give driver details and let the driver appeal direct. Will the driver still have the same rights to appeal like the RK

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The driver MAY have the rights to appeal but loses the protection of POFA legislation.

                          just hang on and see what they threaten next.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I received another legal action notice. Now I have total of 2 PCN at legal action notice stage with DCBL. Will the next letter be a court summons?
                            Also if it did go to court would it be court appearance per notice or one visit for all notices

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have just calculated the dates on all NTK and one was sent 64 calander days from the date of issue of the windscreen ticket.

                              The 56days you mentioned is that working only? I wanted to include this in the appeal but wanted to be sure before hand

                              Comment

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