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Police seizure during breakdown, a bit confused

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  • Police seizure during breakdown, a bit confused

    Hello,

    I had an issue happen the other day that left me somewhat confused, suspicious and not to mention concerned.

    I had a breakdown on a major motorway while driving with my family. We called the emergency services to let them know, as we broke down in a live line with no hard shoulder. It was also in the middle of roadworks.

    The traffic police soon came out, but also accompanied by a regular police car. They asked me if my car had a towing eye, and I said I'd look in the manual. While I was talking to the traffic cop, the regular copper decided to have a poke around in my vehicle. He opened the doors, had a look around and made a big deal about a camping knife I had in the bottom of the door.

    I explained we'd just been out in the woods, I use that for cutting branches, bushcraft, digging up plants as well as cutting up food etc.. We're not from the UK, this is pretty common for us European types. I didn't clean the car entirely out as we'd just been out on this type of trip and were in fact on our way to stay with friends in the north of England. He made a big deal about the knife being illegal, not believing me about camping/bushcraft (ignoring the compass and other things in the car...) and accusing me of being some sort of gang member. I'm a middle-aged computer geek, and I was travelling with my partner and our two small kids. Not the gang banging type.

    Anyway... his partner talked him down and he said he wasn't going to arrest me (whew... no joke) and was simply going to seize the knife. Fair enough. I didn't know it was illegal to have something like that and I'd rather not be on the wrong side of the law. He had me sign something electronic on his phone, the text was something along the lines of <my name> from <my address> license number <my lic no.> voluntary surrenders knife etc. I asked what this was, if I was going to have a record or something, and the cop got angry and shouty again, how he should really be arresting me.

    Does anyone have an idea what I signed? Could there be any fallout from this? Did he have to let me know why he was having a poke around in my car? We're I'm from - the police have to be very clear about their actions, as there has been a lot of abuse of power in the past.

    I didn't get any receipt, or paperwork, or anything whatsoever.

    Like I said - I'm a law abiding person, the cop even asked me if I have points on my license (no) or a record (no). I have no desire to have anything illegal, so if he wants to seize the knife, fine with me. I just don't want any trouble.

    I didn't think it was very professional to scream and yell at me in front of my family and threaten to arrest me, but in the end I'm much happier not being arrested.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Hi Kevin45,
    How scary! I'm sorry you've had such an experience while visiting us and hope it doesn't put you off exploring the UK further but maybe leave the bushcrafting knives at home next time I'm no specialist on these things but will tag des8 who may be able to give a few pointers.
    I am a qualified solicitor and am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

    If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for that. We actually live here, we've been here for a loooong time. We enjoy it and are in the process of becoming citizens (well, the kids are already). Just a bit scary to have that happen. I realise ignorance of the law is no excuse - however I think that the PC's are empowered to use judgement in various situations. Good think this one did eventually use sound judgement... or I'd be in a lot of trouble today.

      Comment


      • #4
        Glad it hasn't put you off too much and you're prepared to put up with us Brits a while longer. Hopefully Des8 will be along later and can clarify things. Does annoy me when people in authority are so often rude. No excuse for it even if there is justification for searching and the like.
        I am a qualified solicitor and am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

        Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

        If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Ah, someone at work thinks the PC just had me sign over ownership so he can have the knife destroyed... but he isn't a legal expert.

          Comment


          • #6
            It probably is something like that but would have been helpful to let you know at the time. I'll see if I can find anything and post back if I'm successful or Des8 will be around later hopefully.
            I am a qualified solicitor and am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

            Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

            If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

            Comment


            • #7
              OK - thanks :-)

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi, sorry about delay but was out hospital visiting.

                Rules are set out in Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984

                Firstly the policeman should not have searched your car.
                The police need reasonable grounds to suspect you’re carrying illegal drugs, a weapon,
                stolen property or something which could be used to commit a crime, such as a crowbar to legally search your vehicle
                Breakdowns & minor traffic violations (e.g. speeding, broken tail-light, or expired registration) are not considered probable cause

                Secondly before searching the policeman must tell you:
                their name and police station
                what they expect to find, for example drugs
                the reason they want to search you, for example if it looks like you’re hiding something
                why they are legally allowed to search you
                that you can have a record of the search and if this isn’t possible at the time, how you can get a copy

                Unfortunately you were carrying a knife in a public place, and as you discovered this was against the law.
                From his over the top reaction I assume it was not a folding knife with a blade not exceeding 3".
                A good precis of the UK knife laws can be found here: https://www.gearweare.com/uk-knife-l...nterpretation/ (this is not a recommendation for the firm or its goods!)

                As your colleague suggests you appear to have "voluntarily" surrendered the knife

                No use complaining about loss of knife (ignorance of the law is not a defence), but you may be justified in making a complaint about the attitude of the officer and his failure to comply with PACE.
                It won't get your knife returned, or anything at all other than perhaps an apology (if lucky) but might make you feel better.
                I wouldn't bother, but anything for a quiet life.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi - thanks for that info!

                  No, it was a sizeable knife, so I can understand his reaction. They're so common back home that I was puzzled by it. I can unsunderst now, and I consider myself very lucky I wasn't arrested. Incredibly lucky.

                  I have no intention of contacting the police station to take this further, Heaven Forbid. I amam happy to be rid of that thing knowing it was illegal.

                  My remaining concern was for what I signed, I'm hoping that form or statement (looked all the world like a memo app on his phone) - if it could come back to haunt me or goes down as some sort of permanent note in a file against me. I might sound paranoid but I have a clean record and hope to keep it that way!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You haven't been issued with any documentation, so you have not received a caution or warning so there should be no record of this kept which will affect you.
                    Just be careful of breaching funny old UK laws lol

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Whew - thanks! Lesson learned...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks for hopping on des8
                        I am a qualified solicitor and am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

                        Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

                        If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

                        Comment

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