NCP Hereford ticket for waiting in the car

[Orpheus33]

Hi everyone, I just joined this morning in the hope of flushing out what operators like NCP actually can and can't enforce - a friend borrowed my girlfriend's car just before Christmas (20thDec) and drove into an NCP car park in Hereford - there were no clear spaces available as the marking is a bit dodgy and the driver/friend didn't want to leave the car where it felt vulnerable with Christmas shopping in, so instead sat and waited for a space. After just over 15 minutes, 17 minutes and 17 seconds to be precise, the friend/driver gave up and drove out. NCP dispatched a PCN to my girlfriend asking who the driver was and she sent it back with the driver's details in London - she just got another letter saying she hasn't complied with their demands and so is out of time and must pay £100. What should she do?

[ostell]

You show us the ticket your girlfriend received suitably redacted, but leave dates. And edit your post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred.

With the driver identified there can be no keeper liability. The only limit in this is if court proceedings have started, which isn't the case.

The notice may be incorrect in which case their claim will be rejected. If they got it correct then again it will be rejected because the identity of the driver has been given and she has no liability.

Here's POFA, the legislation they rely on. In the first instance they have to get all of paragraph 9 correct and 5 (1) (b) gives the condition for claiming from the keeper if the don't know the driver but as they know the driver they have not met that condition and therefore cannot claim from the keeper. The only release from that condition is 5 (2), there is no other time limit so they are wrong.

Also consider reminding them of condition 5 (1) (b) but not providing the information again, just when the letter with the information was sent.

The intention is not to pay anything.

In any case the overriding fact is that they allege they offer to provide a parking space but there was no parking space provided thus failing their part of the offered contract and therefore no contract was in place and therefore there could be no breach.

[Orpheus33]

Dear Ostell, thank you for your prompt reply - when you say I send you the PCNs 'suitably redacted', do you mean that I blur my girlfriend's name and address only?

[Orpheus33]

So here are the 2 PCNs from NCP, the original ticket and also the FINAL REMINDER - are you saying that my girlfriend should write to NCP again confirming that she was not the driver and that she has already written to them with this information

[ostell]

The PCN number and VRM need removing and please, importantly, edit your first post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. Use "the driver....." etc.

Here's another letter to send. Noone should have to pay.


Dear Sirs,

Further to your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

I have been advised that you have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

I was not the driver at the time and there is no legal requirement to identify who was and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


Send it first class post and get a free certificate of posting from a Post Office.

Then just ignore and file anything else that arrives unless she gets a Letter before Claim or actual court papers.

Here's POFA for reference

[Orpheus33]

Dear Ostell, that's fantastic, can't thank you enough and will be sending that right away

[Orpheus33]

Dear Ostell, that's fantastic, can't thank you enough and will be sending that right away

IMG_20190320_175607_resized_20190320_055627868.jpg
Dear Ostell, I sent the letter you recommended above but they have simply ignored it and instead a debt collection agency has written back to my girlfriend (see attached) demanding £160 - are they just trying it on and should I ignore it, or should I/we write back?

[charitynjw]

They (Trace) are just toothless debt collectors.

They have absolutely no legal right or power to enforce this.

Ignore what? (As close as I could get to a 'whistling' smilie!)