Refugee Crisis

[enaid]

Re: Refugee Crisis

Just to say a load more time effort and money is to be put into finding out if the killing by drone of a British citizen is legal or not. IMHO as soon as the lad joined ISIS he was no longer a British citizen, simples, end of.

[judgemental24]

Re: Refugee Crisis

You cannot make a human being stateless as that is contrary to international law

No matter what crime has been perpetrated everyone is entitled to due process and a trial

We are not at war with Syria neither do we have the death penalty

[enaid]

Re: Refugee Crisis

You cannot make a human being stateless as that is contrary to international law

He wasn't stateless he was Islamic State of Iraq

[judgemental24]

Re: Refugee Crisis

And i will say there is no Islamic State of Iraq recognised by the United Nations unlike a British citizen

[PAWS]

Re: Refugee Crisis

Well, I myself only moved to the UK 29 years ago and despite marrying an English man many might say I have a nerve saying this but, hey, that has ever stopped me before.
Just for a second let us look back
In the years just before, during and immediately after the Second World War Britain refused many Jews entry to what was then Palestine. The number of Jewish refugees accepted onto mainland Britain was severely restricted just before and during the Second World War. Even children whose parents had already been moved to camps were refused entry. Those who did succeed in finding ‘sanctuary’ in the UK were often subject to anti-sematic abuse and many were interred as they were seen as enemy aliens.
Public opinion was the same as it is today.
These facts have been glossed over and we would all like to see ourselves as the liberators and saviours. We are rightly disgusted by the actions of the Nazis and their wholesale attempt to exterminate the European Jews. Due to an overdose of propaganda we naturally assume Britain offered unconditional sanctuary and eventual salvation.
In fairness, Ireland not only refused sanctuary for most Jewish refugees but accepted many known Nazi war criminals who were fleeing post war Europe.
If this is the worst refugee crisis since WW2 then are we OK with the knowledge that our descendants might have to gloss over our actions?

[enaid]

Re: Refugee Crisis

And i will say there is no Islamic State of Iraq recognised by the United Nations unlike a British citizen

Recognised or not they sure exist.
I don't understand why a British citizen can CHOOSE to join a terrorist organization that has designs on killing his supposedly own countrymen and still be treated as one of us. Totally unacceptable in my view had he not been killed should never be allowed to set foot on British soil ever again.

[judgemental24]

Re: Refugee Crisis

Recognised or not they sure exist.
I don't understand why a British citizen can CHOOSE to join a terrorist organization that has designs on killing his supposedly own countrymen and still be treated as one of us. Totally unacceptable in my view had he not been killed should never be allowed to set foot on British soil ever again.

Look at the IRA, they were British nationals killing fellow British nationals

Do you propose stripping them of British citizenship as they want an Irish free state??

[PAWS]

Re: Refugee Crisis

Wow! I think that is another subject for another very, very long thread!!!!!
Meanwhile, back on the ranch!

There are roughly 125,000 refugees living in the UK. More than 50 million people were forced to flee their homes due to persecution, famine and war. There are 13 million people registered as refugees in the developed world. We have taken in less than 1%.
As the Red Cross put it:
In the eyes of much of the UK public, the terms ‘refugee’, ‘asylum seeker’ and ‘migrant’ have almost blurred into one.
And there we have it in a nutshell.
We have to put down the Daily Express and the Daily Mail and look at the facts.

[judgemental24]

Re: Refugee Crisis

"We have to put down the Daily Express and the Daily Mail and look at the facts".

You forgot the Scum as well as the Express and Daily Heil:tinysmile_twink_t2:

But well put.

[enaid]

Re: Refugee Crisis

Look at the IRA, they were British nationals killing fellow British nationals

Do you propose stripping them of British citizenship as they want an Irish free state??

Well I didn't know that republicans were British subjects although they may well have been when the troubles started. Is that not what all the fighting was and still is about? not wanting to be part of the UK?

[PAWS]

Re: Refugee Crisis

Well I didn't know that republicans were British subjects although they may well have been when the troubles started. Is that not what all the fighting was and still is about? not wanting to be part of the UK?

No, most were technically British subjects as they lived in Northern Ireland. As for any UK national who goes fights for IS –well they should be punished by the same laws they claim to be so passionate about.

[judgemental24]

Re: Refugee Crisis

Well I didn't know that republicans were British subjects although they may well have been when the troubles started. Is that not what all the fighting was and still is about? not wanting to be part of the UK?

#

And i will respond then with Nationalists/Loyalists such as the UVF or the UFF.

They are very much British subjects in response to the IRA Activities. Do we strip them of British Citizenship as well??

[PAWS]

Re: Refugee Crisis

Ah, you see they claimed to be fighting to remain British! You can see why I didn't want to go down this road!

- - - Updated - - -

I do not think we should be make such large contributions in foreign aid when our Education, health and social welfare systems are in such a s*** state but despite my constant moaning we are living in a land of milk and honey compared to many, many millions of people in the world. With such security comes great responsibility. Should we not be part of the ‘global community’ and therefore have no obligation to offer sanctuary to these refugees?
Would we be better off as a standalone Island nation? Should we get out of Europe and feel no responsibility to any other country. Withdraw from NATO and the UN? Pull up the drawbridge and slam down the portcullis. No one coming over here to ‘freeload’. No drain on our welfare system. Our health service would not be strained by the re-emergence of diseases it had thought eradicated. We would not be burdened by EU laws and sanctions. Our military would not be obliged to fight and indeed die on foreign soil for a cause we neither understand nor believe we are affected by.
On the other hand……..
No Refugees which would mean no Marks and Spencer’s knickers, no Patak’s Sauce, No Tilda Rice, No Queen (as in the band not HM!)
In 2014 foreign investment was responsible for the creation of 85,000 new jobs and securing approximately 23000. I cannot find a reliable report giving the precise number of people employed by foreign companies not can I find a figure to indicate how many UK owned companies have been supported by FI. If 85k new jobs were created in 2014, that is I one single year, then it is reasonable to assume that the number of employees whose jobs are funded by foreign companies must be in the millions. That’s millions of people paying PAYE and NI into our welfare system. That’s millions supporting local shops and building industries that in turn provide more people with employment and through VAT more revenue for our country.
Another thing we tend to forget is that many foreign companies provide private health insurance as part of the employment package (a benefit that the government taxes, much to my chagrin). Despite a number of well publicised scandals most also pay corporate tax in this country not to mention the number that fund various research projects.
Before this turns into the famous ‘what have the Romans ever done for us sketch’ I just want to point out that in return for this we are obliged to take in a relatively small percentage of the world’s refugees. Small price in my opinion.

[enaid]

Re: Refugee Crisis

Well we will have to agree to disagree on that me thinks as we going off topic tbh. Judgemental

[meellis]

Re: Refugee Crisis

When people state don't listen to the propaganda that is exactly why the picture was released last week and that is also why I said I could understand why they would want to carry on their journey. International law might state that the first country they arrive at should be where they file for asylum but these countries can't cope Now with the release of the pictures we have people either suggesting that the immigrants are not fleeing persecution because they would stay in the first safe country or a knee jerk reaction into us needing to do something forgetting that these people have been dying making these crossings for a long time and we should have been doing something a long time ago. As for Britain and America being responsible for it all by messing around in these countries I am pretty sure There are a lot of people who have an inbuilt hatred for the west as there are a lot of westerners who have an inbuilt hatred of those "foreigners" and the only part the countries are responsible for is giving people a reason to feed their hatred. As I have said I do not have a problem with refugees coming here but we do need to understand the framework that it will work within.