Shoddy painting by decorator

[shellybelly]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

He has replied saying that he will finish the job after the 27th jan and could I postpone my carpet laying.I have told him that the date carpets fitted is the only date until after Feb and we open on the 1st Feb and that our verbal agreement agreed that the painting would be done by Christmas and the snags as he called them, would be done on the 5th jan. I have myself finished off the painting today(Sunday) and there was a lot more than snags, I have had to do all the glossing again as it was such a mess. Does anyone know where I stand with getting payment from him if he decides he`s not going to pay me.

[wales01man]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

Problem could be you have not given him the chance to put work right if he could prove he was to sick to work until now.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

our verbal agreement agreed that the painting would be done by Christmas

Did you specify which Christmas? :grin:

[meellis]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

One quick view I have is the fact that in your first post you say he finished the job so you paid him on the understanding that he would come back to finish any snags. Either there was snags that were noted or he had finished, if there was still work that was noted to be done then he hadn't finished. If you paid him upfront for this unfinished work then that could be construed that you trusted and had a good working relationship with him which has broken down for some reason. As posted by Wales01man he should have had the chance to correct the work and with the Christmas break you would have to question whether he has had the chance. I am by no means defending shoddy tradesmen, I am a plumber and gas fitter myself so I see enough of it and am flabbergasted at how much some people pay for it, but I will also see it from the self employed tradesman's point as well. I keep telling my customers that they need to have the works required and priced in writing so everybody knows where they stand because I get fed up of customers asking for more to be done seen as they are paying me to be there anyway. He has said he will return so he is aware that there is a problem and he as offered to rectify it which doesn't show the signs of a bad tradesman to me unless he has no intention of honouring it so in my opinion you are better off trying to come to some sort of arrangement between yourselves because I would fear you could be viewed negatively in any proceedings.

[wales01man]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

Summed up well meelis can see problems here if they try for a judgement.

Like your bit about customers always wanting more,It always starts with"while your here" always seems to be bad tradesmen never bad customers featured in Tv programmes

[meellis]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

Unfortunately there are bad tradesmen and bad customers, bad tradesmen make better tele though. I wouldn't want to comment on this tradesman though because I haven't seen the work but the fact that the work was paid for on an understanding just say's something to me. It might just be wording and it wasn't agreed that the job was finished but then a figure should have been withheld until such a time. A lot of the customers I go to that complain about bad tradesmen seem to have a lot of tradesmen to complain about. You usually find out that they were expecting a lot more than they actually received for there money or the salesman had nothing to do with the eventual work. When others are making something out of the deal, like websites, somebody has to pay, if you are pricing the work as in the local area that is one hit on your profit and of course profit is a dirty word for a tradesman because you should only be earning a living wage.

[PlanB]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

I think only one mistake was made here and that was to pay 100% of the cost of the work upfront. Sadly that took away your bargaining power. I always retain 10% of the job for seven days even when it's finished against the possibility of defects. Not every flaw shows up immediately. Most decent tradesmen will carry out work with only a small deposit upfront for the cost of materials. It makes them work faster too because they know they won't get the balance until the work is signed off by me.

[meellis]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

Plan B the mistake here wasn't paying 100% upfront, the tradesman had already done work and it sounds from the brief description that there was no talk of a deposit. The mistake was agreeing that there was work still to be done so a portion of the bill should have been withheld. From the posts it sounds like the tradesman has been quite honest and upfront because he mentioned snagging and he has talked about money back and/or returning when better. I don't know what area of the country this is but where I am £600 would only get you a week with a good painter decorator and that is without materials and it sounds quite a list of jobs to do properly but there is no mention of how long they were there or what they were expected to work with so I couldn't comment on the standard of work. What I will say though is if you had 2 hours work, supplied good quality materials then you should expect some money back. On the other hand if you expected 4 weeks work to be done in 2 and only supplied cheap and nasty materials then you have got what you have paid for. I personally hope that you discuss with your tradesmen about your payment arrangements before they start though. A good tradesman wouldn't need to be held ransom by withholding payment they would offer a guarantee on their work and would want to have their name held in high regard. Do you go into the supermarket and ask if you can withhold 10% until you have eaten the food and decided it was ok?

[wales01man]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

As an Ex builder I can say that I and most of the tradesmen I knew would not have accepted a 10% deduction on final invoice the client always had the chance to check work upon completion before payment most would have turned the work down .
Leaving 10% behind amounts to no profit on a lot of jobs and if the job was 2k with 1k materials it means waiting for 100 quid of money paid for materials suppliers don't wait for the other 10% same as supermarkets?

[meellis]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

Large contracting firms have a retention which in reality you never see they hope you forget. In truth because everybody knows it goes on the retention is added into the price of the works somewhere so the contractor thinks he has you by the ***** but he hasn't. Unfortunately I have had customers that I have had to do the opposite with ie refuse to finish until I saw some money. I personally try not to take to much up front or as the job goes because you run the risk of having nothing to work for but if the job is to big or too long you have to be careful that you haven't bought to many materials and only covered them your payments. In plumbing a lot of the materials are expensive and you need them to do the job, it isn't the cheap parts first and the expensive ones to complete it always seems to be the expensive parts first. I wouldn't say no to a job that I knew was going to have a retention but I wouldn't give that customer the cheapest possible price either just in case they didn't pay I cannot afford to finance their work and make nothing but a wage.

[PlanB]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

I agree with all these recent posts which highlight the need to get the nitty gritty of the contract sorted upfront and in writing. An "estimate" is just that. It's an educated guess at what the job should cost not allowing for unforeseen problems. A "quote" is understood to be a fixed price. I encourage contractors to add a contingency figure (typically 10%) to the quote to cover unexpected extras. This obviously has to be subsequently justified.

It's all about expectations really. "Redecorate my hallway and stairs" can be a bit vague especially if you are a fan of Farrow & Ball like me

[meellis]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

The Farrow & Ball part is the thing Plan B, I wouldn't want to pre judge the original poster or the tradesman because there isn't enough info. What I would like to say, and I have experienced it, is if people are expecting a Farrow & Ball finish on a potential 4 week contract but only supply B&Q value and the funds for 2 days work then there is a communication issue going on. The tradesman should explain what they are giving for the money and the clients expectations should be on the level of the remuneration. In modern Britain, especially because of TV programmes, people are so expecting to get ripped off by tradesmen they assume that everything is over priced and done to fleece them. In some cases this is true but not in all, when I go to a customer who has problems you generally find they have gone for the person who has told them they can give them the earth for nothing whereas everybody else wants to charge them a small fortune. They cannot see that everybody is telling them that it can't be done , they just assume that everybody else are trying to rip them off. I used to feel sorry for all customers that had felt they had been ripped off but then I found that a large proportion brought it upon themselves and then were expecting me to remedy it for them for nothing.

[shellybelly]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

In the end I got in touch with Rated people but not before I had left him a bad review on line where everyone and himself could see it. He soon got in touch with me and said that he would bring the £200 into the Cafe himself when it had opened and he had started work again on the understanding that I did not contact Rated People anymore. I received an email from Rated People asking if my problem had been resolved and who the tradesman was. I havent replied to them yet as I gave him a date of returning my money between the 17th Feb and the 27th Feb 2014.
The threat worked and hopefully I will receive my £200, if not its back to Rated People. I wish I could attach the photos I had taken of the paintwork and I am sure that you all would agree the work was unacceptable even for a tradesman with Dulux one Coat Paint, which is what he used (and said he always uses) and I didnt supply it he bought it from B&Q and then when he ran out, Wilkinsons. I have since done the paintwork myself, it took me 2 days, and it is now good for any of my customers to look at.
Lets hope he pays up and that will be the end of it.
I didnt expect the earth for the money but I did expect a decent job with all the paintwork painted and not patchy with the underlying paint showing through allover
Some of the doors he painted were dark brown and I wanted them white, the dark brown was still showing through considerably when he had finished. The doors which I painted (which were also brown) came out white as I used a better undercoat but only Wilko none drip gloss on top.
If he had not been ill and could have re done the paintwork BEFORE we opened and had the carpets fitted and let out the rooms and it compared to my paintwork then all well and good as I did not have the time really to re do it and that is why I employed him in the first place. But he couldnt and that was what we initially verbally agreed at the onset of the work, that it would all be finished before we opened or had the carpets laid. At no time when he came round to view the job did he say that he probably wouldnt be able to finish it as he was going in hospital for an operation, this only came out when he had been working for 3 days for us. I do take some responsibility as I should not have paid him all of the money when he said he had finished but was coming back before we opened on the 7th feb to "finish" the snags. As it was dark when he left and as you said, the next day things look different when dry, I didnt worry too much until I saw all the paintwork in the daylight the next day.
He knew that he had rushed the job and admitted that there was paintwork to do when I phoned him after new year and also said that he would refund me some money. I had to get this in writing hence the emails.
We had several tradesmen of all descriptions doing different work in the beginning and their work was impeccable.
I dont usually complain but his work was terrible for a supposedly skilled man.

[wales01man]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

Did he use one coat gloss strait onto a brown door?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Shoddy painting by decorator

Did he use one coat gloss strait onto a brown door?

From the sound of it, he probably didn't bother to strip or even "key" the original surface.

Why was he in hospital - did he accidentally fire his six-gun into his foot?