Cameron and EU

[miliitant]

Re: Cameron and EU

i must say enquirer

you make a lot of sense if that is the ultimate policy direction, things like doing a partnership with france over our navy would be an example

[Bill-K]

Re: Cameron and EU

I have to say that I recently followed a link by BB to a presentation by Brian Gerrish, and it scared me witless. If he's a nutter or a fraud, then he is b100dy clever. It all made sense to me, and I daresay it's all supported by biblical prophecies, too. The fact that all this seems to be unstoppable fills me with dread. I later followed Mil's suggestion to check out 'V for Vengeance,' and scared myself even more !!! I had often wondered where the Occupii guys [sic !] got the idea for the masks.

[bluebottle]

Re: Cameron and EU

I have to say that I recently followed a link by BB to a presentation by Brian Gerrish, and it scared me witless. If he's a nutter or a fraud, then he is b100dy clever. It all made sense to me, and I daresay it's all supported by biblical prophecies, too. The fact that all this seems to be unstoppable fills me with dread. I later followed Mil's suggestion to check out 'V for Vengeance,' and scared myself even more !!! I had often wondered where the Occupii guys [sic !] got the idea for the masks.

Everything Brian Gerrish talks about, Bill, is backed up with hard evidence. He's a pretty shrewd cookie. However, what he says about taking back power from the nutter elements in Parliament and other sectors is true. I'm attaching a transcript of the thoughts of Saul Alinsky, the subversive sod Brian Gerrish mentions in the video. It is scary what Alinsky says, but if you adapt what he says and use it against those who are seeking to undermine society, the likes of Capita, Liberata and other corrupt corporations will be exposed to the public glare - the last thing these corporate monstrosities want - and life would become very uncomfortable for them and their senior management. Just imagine that and savour the thought. Nothing is impossible when you put your mind to it.

[Bill-K]

Re: Cameron and EU

I'll save that for bed-time reading, BB. Took a preliminary peek, and in the pre-amble section, Saul puts in a couple of decent quotations then adds his own - praising Lucifer as the first Radical known to man. It sets the tone for what is to follow, I guess. So - let the Bringer of Light bring to man the knowledge of good and evil, as he did in Eden. Credit where it's due. Armed with that knowledge - and the experience that history gives us - we can now make an informed choice. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" [George Santayana].

[The Debt Star]

Re: Cameron and EU

Hopefully we'll get our vote.

Personally I'd rather see this country exit than be ruled from Berlin.

Not that I think that will happen. All the major parties will back continued membership and the revised terms will be a stitch up. As in 1973 and 1975 the establishment will scare the majority into voting to stay.
As for arguments to leave, the figures vary. 50% of our trade is utside the EU and that can be built back up to pre-membership levels.

The EU costs more than it benefits us. The recent demand from France and Germany for an annual UK budget rise of 5% are well above inflation. We are paying for the Eurozone, let's be clear about that. The UK is the third or fourth highest net contributor AFTER the rebate. Which makes me laugh because every scheduled item in a pro-EU news broadcast on TV talks about the money that the EU spends on initiatives in the UK. Put it another way, I give you £5 and you give me £2 back and I'm grateful to you for your money. Who are they kidding? LOL

At a time when all individual countries are cutting everything, how can an increase of 5% be warranted? This is particularly true when considering with the EU's history of spending. I was reading on the internet of a recent grant of £162,000 to the Flying Gorillas dance group. Well Bill, you might approve of THAT LOL but we can find other examples fer sure!

Between the corruption (just look at Berlusconi) and the Teutonic disregard for democracy (for example, the way Germany vetoed a Greek presidentail candidate during the debt crisis), the culture and direction of the EU is wholly at odds with a flexible, less beaurocratic free trade zone. That after all is what we want; a free trade zone and not a political federation.

The EU STILL pays farmers NOT to farm as part of the Common Agricultural Policy, which sucks up 47% of the EU's entire budget. Payments are routinely abused there too. The reason is that France has to keep its farmers happy.

The UK does benefit from free trade agreements but pulling out of the EU doesn't mean these will disappear. That's scaremongering. We must not underestimate how important the UK is as a trading partner and the importance of the City. Norway and Switzerland still have free trade agreements with the EU and they are not members. I read recently that no European country can legally be isolated from trade if it is non-EU.



Besides, it's China, India and North Amwerica we should be looking to for trade. Also the Commonwealth.

[MIKE770]

Re: Cameron and EU

We get out of E.U. then we might as well sail away, as we do not have the old countries who use to supply us with food etc., loss of jobs due to companies who depend on the E.U. Countries for their business, the yanks are concentrating on the Pacific area as partners and so it goes on, Cameron is trying to get the votes for next time as they are seeing that they are loosing voters at the moment, is getting bad as the time of Labour reducing the age to vote from 21 to 18 to get a catchment vote to get re-elected.

Some of us have been there since the 1940s have seen it all before,= out of Europe Doomed, time to wake up and the MPs debate in open public that the facts are that Farmers need the E.U. Industry needs the E.U. so there we are. Cameron is trying to cover up failings.

Saying money into E.U. well as has been reported in a lot of essential areas the E.U. has payed out which locally would not be been able to fund.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Cameron and EU

Nothing preventing us from seeking trading partners elsewhere in the globe too. European economy is weak and the Pacific and Asia is the way to go.

[wales01man]

Re: Cameron and EU

Stay in or get out? Cameron if he keeps to his word on a referendum with that simple question at least he will be asking the people unlike Clegg and Miliband who dont want the people to decide not very democratic is it Clegg and Miliband ?
I personally thinj that whether we stay or leave for us normal people things wont change

[The Debt Star]

Re: Cameron and EU

I personally think that whether we stay or leave for us normal people things won't change

The lie is the scaremongering that goes with an EU withdrawal. Life goes on and the big interntional investors will remain here, in or out. In fact, were we to have associoate status like Norway we would have the best of both.

[MissFM]

Re: Cameron and EU

Hard to know where to start on this one - have to prepare to be unpopular as per. Will go for one obvious first choice - that within the planned "Eurozones", under the government which was a pimp for the war criminal TonyBlair gaining personal World domination, Britain was designated a "service" zone - ie non-productive, non-manufacturing and non-farming. Non-food producing, not self sufficient. A nation of "service industries" subservient to the ubergovernment of the US of Europe.

By the way - was anyone else as infuriated as I was to see Obama laying down the law on this subject?

[leclerc]

Re: Cameron and EU

I think Cameron was laying out his stall for other nations to follow suit with regards to reform within the EU. However, should he fail to deliver and should other nations simply not bother then so be it. Many of you have mentioned about being told what to do or how to do things. If you trade with the EU you will still have to acquiesce to the standards already in place if you want your goods to be imported into the EU trading bloc.
At university my degree is in European Studies and I spent a year abroad and benefitted from the EU Erasmus fund with regards to helping out with the financial cost of a year abroad. I came out very much a strong fervent supporter of being European and within the EU. However, I am afraid this will sound xenophobic in nature but when we have people from overseas coming over to the UK and not integrating in society then I have a problem. There are many from the newer EU nations that are not integrating and continue to use their own shops, watch their own TV programs back home and are able to claim the benefits that others do not. It was common knowledge that the building trade wages went down directly as a result of cheap EU labour over home grown men.

Thank you but no thank you. I vote that we leave the EU as it currently stands. The argument that we will lose trade as a result of changes to our status does not wash with me.

[enquirer]

Re: Cameron and EU

Together, Britain and Germany bankroll the whole thing. The other countries are either permanently broke, or of no consequence. Thus, if the UK were to leave, the Euro would collapse within hours and the EU itself would follow within days.

Now that's real power, yet mysteriously, it is never used.

[MissFM]

Re: Cameron and EU

the problem is for every statistic that is thrown against europe, a statistic for the benefit of europe can be thrown back

instead of all this negative spin that is constant from the tory party or Neuro-Linguistic Programming,

is it not about time we had an honest debate for and against europe that is not led by politicians, and put all the facts on the table, not the selected policies used for the purpose of sensational journalistic licence

just give us all the TRUE FACTS

Miliitant - this maybe (?) off thread and can we agree to disagree on Europe - but please could you explain why you have mentioned "neuro-linguistic programming" in this context? And what it actually is? Would be most grateful.


Big thanks FM

[leclerc]

Re: Cameron and EU

Neuro Linguistic programming is the way effectively that we program our mind based on the language used. For example, one headline could read "tonnes of snow forcing UK closures" or fun in the snow for all....that is a bad example but it kinda gives you the message I think, lol!

[The Debt Star]

Re: Cameron and EU

Maybe that should be EURO linguistic programming LOL!