Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

[leclerc]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...een-girls.html

I have taken the Daily Mail article as a starting point but the Porter states something about Jimmy Saville and the hospital and immediately after so many weeks coverage we have failed to start to question whether the truth is really out there. His allegations were later proven to be simply chatter rather than fact since he was not employed in Leeds Hospital in the 1980's.

Please do not get me wrong because what is alleged is horrific and shows a complete failure in the system to actually question or to believe vulnerable young adults over someone who has raised millions for children's charities. There is an argument that says there was a failure in child protection procedures or that the culture of the BBC allowed abuse to happen.

I think that we have to remember one thing: Jimmy Saville is dead, and so all those allegations will never be tested in court. Only those who turned a blind eye, or who were alleged to have participated in acts. One of the usual suspects has been questioned, namely Paul Gadd aka Gary Glitter. I am surprised Jonathon King has not been questioned. Freddie Starr was arrested tonight.

What is emerging is that everyone knew it was happening, everyone heard it was happening but no one actually did a single thing.

Now to be slightly more controversial: he paid off a few people who sought potential legal redress but was that because of guilt or because of a need to protect his image of a family entertainer?


I'll throw this over to you lot to discuss as there are a load of issues that might be discussed.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

tbh I cannot see Freddie Starr touching a kid!

I think Saville did a lot for charity but, as a mam my stomach churns at the idea of what he allegedly did.
People ask why no one came forward before, its the same as the people who tell the police after granddads and uncles die, fear of not being believed.

[brummie]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

My stomach churns to the fact that all these statements are only now being made. The fact is that this man worked in an enviroment that brought him into close proximity with vulnerable people (Stoke Manderville, a spinal injury unit for one).
The man went to his grave knowing, and smirking his toothless smirk knowing full-well he would not bear witness and stand up to his crimes. The people who knowingly let these "alleged" offences take place should be drawn before the crown for their part in witholding and abbeting.

Rant!!!! Shame he never got caught. The laggs would have deffinatley fixed him....

[bluebottle]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

It's like Gary Glitter when he got banged up. The other lags were singing, to the tune of "D'you Want To Be In My Gang?", 'D'you Want To Be In My Cell?'. They would have kicked the **** out of him.

[brummie]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

i think they may have done more than kicking, BB.....

Truth be known the likes of Saville (not proven) Gladd and possibly Star have possibly been protected from justice to the full because of their "talent related" connections. It sucks......excuse the pun, not intended.

[leclerc]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

Freddie Starr is implicated in one single case so far whilst Paul Gadd is implicated and has already been convicted of the same offence. I think we need to await the actual evidence since clearly, Freddie Starr, did not have the same profile as Saville so if he was predatory like what is being reported of Saville and Glitter then he will be tried in a court of law. At the moment, there is merely an allegations untested in court. My suspicion is that when the number of allegations hits its peak that a vast majority of them will be untested in court.
Any of the victims seeking money from the estate are quick frankly mad. He's dead and buried and so taking his money when his reputation has been irrevocably tarnished is ridiculous. You take money from people alive to punish them not from dead corpses.

[bluebottle]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

My stomach churns to the fact that all these statements are only now being made. The fact is that this man worked in an enviroment that brought him into close proximity with vulnerable people (Stoke Manderville, a spinal injury unit for one).
The man went to his grave knowing, and smirking his toothless smirk knowing full-well he would not bear witness and stand up to his crimes. The people who knowingly let these "alleged" offences take place should be drawn before the crown for their part in witholding and abbeting.

Rant!!!! Shame he never got caught. The laggs would have deffinatley fixed him....

Those who covered up for him should stand trial. Knowing and doing nothing about it is just as bad as actually committing the crime.

[brummie]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

Further-more, i find it difficult to understand what may come of any of the allegations made against Saville, other than stripping his assets and shaming his family. If persons were to blame for allowing this to happen, how can it be proven in a court of law? How can anybody prove that Saville did this? He is dead.

The next thing, in my opinion, will be that a member of the public may come forward and state that said Jim fathered a child.....


Now i sit back, for a moment...."

[brummie]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

Those who covered up for him should stand trial. Knowing and doing nothing about it is just as bad as actually committing the crime.

But how could it be proven?? A simple denial and the key witness is deceased....

[Sapphire]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

The next thing, in my opinion, will be that a member of the public may come forward and state that said Jim fathered a child.....

I think thats already been done, hasn't it ?

By the way there is no, no, no way that Freddie Star is guilty, I am absolutely convinced, the man might be a lot of things but not a nonce, I'd know.

[leclerc]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

They did and that was proven to be false

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ove-child.html

[valeriej43]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

A woman has already come forward not long after he died saying her mother told her years ago that JS was her father, but i believe she had a DNA test and it wasnt proven
I didnt know Freddie Starr had been arrested tonight,
Also on The Wright Stuff todsay Noel Edmonds and Terry EWogans name was mentioned, but no reason given, except that maybe they were connected to the top of the pops an Wogan was a DJ
I personally think a lot of people will be jumping on the band wagon here, simply because they worked with JS or like the porter connected with the hospitals etc
I dont see how they can arrest all from years ago who had sex with some of the girls as there were lots of groupies who would be willing to sleep with any pop star or celebrity and looked much older than they were,
I might be wrong in saying this,but i only think those who raped or forced themselves on girls should be arrested, unless of course the girls were obviously very young, or the men were part of a sex ring
I think girls in the sixties often looked a lot older than their age, partly because the fashions and hairstyles made them look older,
I went in a pub with my brother when i was 14 and wasnt questioned at all,
At the same time most girls were so afraid of getting pregnant they wouldnt dare to go further than petting,and parents drummed it into their kids then to say NO not like today,

[teaboy2]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

Personnally and in no way am i saying saville didn't abuse any child. But in my opinion, in this day and age, people do and will make up allegations about others. Saville was famous and popular thoughout the nation, but he was also rich! He came in close contact with thousands of children during his career, the majority from under previleged families, who are still likely struggling. Some that have got forward are probably seeing it as easy money and its possible their claim is a complete fabrication.

End of the day, what hard evidence is there. As at the moment all i see is hear say from adults that came in to contact with saville by being on his shows or when he visited their school etc - But that doesn't prove hes guilty. Yes there was chat about it, but we all know romours can be based on misinterpretation, misunderstanding thought of seeing soemthing which was actually not what you saw. Theres to many ifs and buts and no solid evidence.

If an adult raped an adult they would need solid forensic, eye witness, or cctv evidence. Yet i don't see any of that here, just one person following the other with allegations, just like lemmings. They all seem to be looking for a big pay day. Though off course if its found to be true then they deserve a big pay day and especially since they can not now see savile face justice.

I guess what am saying is that people should keep a more open mind about this instead of jumping on the hes guilty bandwagon. The press themselves are only all over this because its a big money earning story and sells their papers. So to me the whole thing is about money and not about whether hes innocent or guilty. We already see the press calling him Peado, pervert etc, yet hes not been proven to be guilty, he hasn't face trail and been convicted. If he was still alive and they called him that, then it would be libelous, and contempt of court, try to remeber that.

I don't know if the allegations are true, but rest assured if they were proven true then i would personally have hanged him myself if hed still be alive!

[valeriej43]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

I believe they are true, i live where he had a flat,and rumours abounded here years ago, also he wasnt that well liked, he never paid for anything in a restaurant, and it was well known he liked young girls, of course that doesnt prove anything, but my son was out having a meal with friends one night and JS was all over this young girl of 14, they couldnt wait to get rid of him, said he was creepy, and if the person who organised "Children in Need wouldnt have him near it, they must have had good reason,
His brother was sacked from a hospital job in a psychiatric Hospital apparently in 1980, for groping a woman patient according to one paper,
I do believe not all of the complaints are true, so how do they prove it,
I reckon only those that were actually reported to the police or someone else at the time he was alive should profit from this, although it is common for people not to say anything until the abuser has died, i know of 2 cases,because they somehow feel they are to blame
I do actually now feel sorry for anyone else dragged into this,unless its those who covered for him, or who raped or sexually attacked or forced someone against their will
I am sure there are quite a few having sleepless nights, and shaking in their boots

[leclerc]

Re: Jimmy Saville: Does my memory deceive me?

I think there are two questions that come to mind.
1) How do you prove it?
To an extent you may never prove it but proving that they were either in hospital/top of the pops/ his caravan and/or him home means that the allegations that the person may give might have credence and are not simply made up out of complete fantasy(not that I am saying that they are true.
2) How much does celebrity status protect an individual from coming forward to claim sexual deviance?
The second one is more difficult because in this age in which newspapers can pay money for stories, then being able to be comfortable to be able to come forward when the person you are accusing has unlimited finance to defend a case can be very difficult indeed. If there was first hand evidence of the allegations then what is happening now would never have been big news. Jimmy Saville would have already been in prison.