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Grand National 2012 Thread

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  • #16
    Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

    Originally posted by leclerc View Post
    Montzer it was 3 horses that died, prior to those fatalaties, only 1 horse had died since 2000.

    The fatalities were: ScotsIrish, Garde Charpatre(I did bet on this horse to win), and Educated Evans.

    There are more injuries to jockeys in races these days than to the horse themselves. Furthermore the use of the whip is continually reviewed by the Jockey Club each year. For example, one jockey has received a ban for excessive use of the whip yesterday.
    My apologies leclerc for the mistake, 3 horses not 4.

    I wasn't talking about the use of the whip leclerc, I was referring to a horses natural flight instinct when within a herd - that is what makes them race. No horse will do anything it doesn't want to - trust me after 25 years and numerous qualifications if I know one thing about horses it's that lol. However the nature of racing, the herd environment, the adrenaline, the loud noise of the starters pistol or being confined to a small area and suddenly released with a loud noise, all come together to kick start the horses natural flight instinct from danger. Horses run first and ask questions later (and I've been on the receiving end of THAT too lol) and to be first and the fastest means being the first away from danger.

    It is the natural instinct to flee that makes them run, instincts are so strong in a horse that you never could hope to overcome them. Thoroughbreds that are trained to race have this instinct used(I don't want to say exploited and sound like I'm building a case or anything but do you get what I mean?) and they react as nature intended. Even an old dobbin would jump forward when released from a starting gate or at the sound of a starters pistol so a highly spirited and fit thoroughbred certainly would.

    Racing itself is probably quite enjoyable for a horse, all horses love to gallop and as I said no human, especially one weighing about 7 stone wet through, could force half a ton of fit muscle and bone to do anything. It's just that these thoroughbred horses that are bred for speed, with limbs as light as possible, are not designed to take the weight of their whole body landing over such huge fences like at Aintree, on spindly front legs. They jump the jumps though as they are following their instinct to survive and be with the herd.

    Fewer horses die through racing, however many are injured and can never work again, never mind raced, or simply are not good enough and therefore sold through auctions or given away. Racing thoroughbreds need specialist care with regards to feeding, handling, health and leg protection, however those who have been slightly injured racing or just aren't good enough are sold very cheaply to people who have no idea of such needs, and the horses suffer, the owners and riders also suffer and sometimes are injured trying to 're-school' a racer into a riding horse.

    Racing can be a wonderful sport to watch and the horses are magnificent, the jockeys brave, but I think the racing community has a responsibility to the horses it produces.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

      I've never bet on a horse, myself - but I really thought they enjoyed the race, Monz. So - four of those magnificent critters died at Cheltenham today ?

      And they died in fear ?

      This is akin to fox-hunting, then, surely ?

      I was blissfully ignorant until your post. Maybe others were, too.
      I would say that they were probably quite bewildered and upset when they died depending on injuries and such Bill, and quite certainly in pain until the vet attended. Thankfully vet care is good and quick trackside and the horses won't have had to suffer more or for longer than necessary. However if you read my post above you will see what I mean about fear and enjoyment. These horses are bred with lighter and lighter frames to make them faster and faster - there are consequences.

      And yes I suppose there would be correlations to hunting there - the fox is the one in fear though the horses are also under the herd instinct in that situation too with high adrenaline. I don't agree with hunting foxes with dogs, foxes need to be culled in certain areas I agree but there are other ways.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

        Greyhounds are also bred the same way, my ex was a trainer and I lost count of the amount of dogs that I heard had died or been badly injured, it got to the point where I just could not go to the kennels or the track.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

          Synchronised is a confirmed Grand National entry. No horse since 1934 has done the double of Cheltenham Gold Cup and Grand National.
          Although I tipped it initially, I won't be betting on it since other horses will offer longer odds and will be more beneficial to bet on.

          Confirmed runners are currently 48......I did bet on and won on the Irish Grand National today with Lion Na Bernai simply on a wing and a prayer(33-1 would have been sweeter if I had bet more than just 10p each way :o)
          "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
          (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

            i'll be backing either one with Blue in it or one from Ireland.. long story!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

              Originally posted by puffrose View Post
              i'll be backing either one with Blue in it or one from Ireland.. long story!
              If any horse has blue in it, I doubt it would be running due to medical issues
              "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
              (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

                didnt think of that!!

                last horse I bet on was Celtic Swing (i think) if the name has blue in it, or is irish sounding then I back it.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

                  Ok that leaves you with:

                  Ballabriggs
                  Cappa Bleu
                  Balleyvesey

                  I assumed Killyglen was Scottish name and Deep Purple was close to blue but was not blue, lol!

                  Am not sure you should back the one horse who already has an excuse for losing: "BecauseIcouldntsee"
                  "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
                  (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

                    ty,

                    im having Cappa Bleu for me, and Deep Purple as my "tribute" horse" . Cant really back killyglen as The Boys name is Glen and its a bit... kill glen!!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

                      Female jockeys in the race and their horses:

                      Seabass---Katie Walsh
                      Organisedconfusion---Nina Carberry

                      Will have a small each way bet on these two....will update thread when riders are confirmed for the national.

                      If the ground is soft then horses of 10 years or older are worth a look.
                      "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
                      (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

                        Originally posted by leclerc View Post

                        I assumed Killyglen was Scottish name

                        Wrong!

                        Stuart Crawford believes wind of change can blow for Killyglen in Grand National - Telegraph

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

                          still sound a bit like an instruction to strangle my eldest son!!

                          :laugh:

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

                            Labman, I'm not wrong for making an assumption based on the first part of the horses name, ie Killy( you never heard of Kilmarnock football club(many locals refer to them as "Killy"?)

                            I was basing assumptions SOLELY on name alone and NOT on actual knowledge of the horses cos, as you know I can name all Irish horses in the race.

                            So for the rest of ya, here are the actual Irish Horses:

                            Synchronised, Ballabriggs, Weird Al, Calgary Bay, Alfa Beat, Black Apalachi, Chicago Grey, Seabass, Shakalakaboomboom, West End Rocker, On His Own, Always Right, Cappa Bleu, Rare Bob, Organisedconfusion, The Midnight Club, Treacle, Arbor Supreme, Sunnyhillboy, Killyglen, Tharawaat, Always Winning, BecauseIcouldn'tsee, Giles Cross, Hello Bud, In Compliance, Vic Venturi, Any Currency, Our Island, Abbeybraney, Saddlers Storm, Smoking Area and Ballyvesey.
                            Info based on current entries which are at 48 at the moment but will lower down to the 40 runners for the Grand National.
                            From the above, you could suggest that there are American, Canadian and Middle Eastern horse based solely on the name of the horse, as I said, I assumed Killyglen was Scottish NOT based on actually looking at where the horse was from but just the name.

                            Out of interest it has had won 6 times, placed a further 8 times. Personally I do not think it will win at all but the bookie I use will pay out on 5 horses so might be worth a punt. It is 10 years old which may be good for the ground but whether the horse actually runs well on that kind of ground is questionable.
                            Le Beau Bai looks better value if the ground is expected to be soft. The jockey has not won a single race in the last 30 days but you never know.

                            Some of the other bets you might want to have is: The winner to be trained in Ireland 2-1
                            Over 20 finishers 3-1(if the ground going is soft then that may not be a great bet)
                            Female jockey to win the National: 10-1.

                            I'm not offering those odds by the way before you inbox me with your bets on those last three but were taken from a well known bookmaker, lol!!


                            Ultimately it's a lottery and any of the 40 starters could win so personally I would recommend anyone betting to bet each way on a horse that is over 4-1 which will be most of the field because if your horse wins at 16-1 and you have bet 50p each way then you will bet £1 and receive £2 plus your stake money so for £1 you'll get £2.50 back which is better than betting £1 and getting nothing back. Most bookmakers will pay out on 4 places and Paddy Power will pay out on 5 places.
                            "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
                            (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

                              change of plan... calgary bay for me as its an irish horse (irish heritiage), canadian name (canadian side of the family) and a bay is water.. blue!! perfect!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Grand National 2012 Thread

                                Originally posted by leclerc View Post
                                Labman, I'm not wrong for making an assumption based on the first part of the horses name, ie Killy( you never heard of Kilmarnock football club(many locals refer to them as "Killy"?)

                                I was basing assumptions SOLELY on name alone and NOT on actual knowledge of the horses cos, as you know I can name all Irish horses in the race.

                                So for the rest of ya, here are the actual Irish Horses:

                                Synchronised, Ballabriggs, Weird Al, Calgary Bay, Alfa Beat, Black Apalachi, Chicago Grey, Seabass, Shakalakaboomboom, West End Rocker, On His Own, Always Right, Cappa Bleu, Rare Bob, Organisedconfusion, The Midnight Club, Treacle, Arbor Supreme, Sunnyhillboy, Killyglen, Tharawaat, Always Winning, BecauseIcouldn'tsee, Giles Cross, Hello Bud, In Compliance, Vic Venturi, Any Currency, Our Island, Abbeybraney, Saddlers Storm, Smoking Area and Ballyvesey.
                                Info based on current entries which are at 48 at the moment but will lower down to the 40 runners for the Grand National.
                                From the above, you could suggest that there are American, Canadian and Middle Eastern horse based solely on the name of the horse, as I said, I assumed Killyglen was Scottish NOT based on actually looking at where the horse was from but just the name.

                                Out of interest it has had won 6 times, placed a further 8 times. Personally I do not think it will win at all but the bookie I use will pay out on 5 horses so might be worth a punt. It is 10 years old which may be good for the ground but whether the horse actually runs well on that kind of ground is questionable.
                                Le Beau Bai looks better value if the ground is expected to be soft. The jockey has not won a single race in the last 30 days but you never know.

                                Some of the other bets you might want to have is: The winner to be trained in Ireland 2-1
                                Over 20 finishers 3-1(if the ground going is soft then that may not be a great bet)
                                Female jockey to win the National: 10-1.

                                I'm not offering those odds by the way before you inbox me with your bets on those last three but were taken from a well known bookmaker, lol!!


                                Ultimately it's a lottery and any of the 40 starters could win so personally I would recommend anyone betting to bet each way on a horse that is over 4-1 which will be most of the field because if your horse wins at 16-1 and you have bet 50p each way then you will bet £1 and receive £2 plus your stake money so for £1 you'll get £2.50 back which is better than betting £1 and getting nothing back. Most bookmakers will pay out on 4 places and Paddy Power will pay out on 5 places.
                                PMSL - lighten up man! Light hearted banter, that's all.

                                Comment

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