Should it be a Public Holiday?

[Happyolddog]

Re: Should it be a Public Holiday?

Englishness to me conjurs up the thoughts of louts, binge drinking, fat kids, litter dropping and bad manners. Not the quaint villages, Geeves and Wooster, stiff upper lip or the roast dinners. They are from a bygone era, an era I wish I lived through.

The new Englishness has to be defined, I can't speak for the masses but my piece would be to say; Englishness is being comfortable with our mixed race and multi-faith society. We tend not to stoop to the same practices that other countries do, we are quite tolerent of others beliefs, colour and language.
There is one part of Englishness that does annoy me, that is the practice of removing our identity so as not to offend others. I wear my little badge of our flag and my crucifix. I am not offended by the mosques, the temples or the minerets so please accept my identity as well.

[Glenn UK]

Re: Should it be a Public Holiday?

HOD

i think its a shame that you equate those things with Englishness. I don't although i do accept they have become part of society, i am not sure i would add them to a list of cultural characteristics. Bu ti understand why you can see them.

Sapphire

thats an interesting, perhaps equally romantic perspective as mine.


I travel quite a lot and its interesting to see how people have a perception about the English/British.

Certainly in many countries in business terms at least we are respected and our workers are often in great demand abroad. I do occasionally get comments about in stripped suites and umbrellas although not that often these days.

I was hoping someone would say this is what being English means, since i find it difficult to pin point myself. our tolerance is something to be proud of and defended.

I do not like the current 'security' culture as i think it is not what the English are about. Everything is done in the name of security or safety and in reality what happens is little by little we are losing freedom and our security and safety is in reality little enhanced IMHO.

But hey its sunny outside and i should be doing some work

Glenn

[Exclusive]

Re: Should it be a Public Holiday?

I think we have lost our Englishness-that-was since becoming multi-cultural and politically correct. I was out of the country for 16 years and saw some big changes when I returned. We have become so afraid of being accused of racism that we now seem to bow to political correctness to the detriment of our national identity. I'm talking about things such as councils hanging Xmas lights reading "Happy Festive Season" instead of "Happy Xmas" so as not to offend people of those faiths that do not celebrate Xmas. Or schools no longer performing the nativity for the same reason. And such examples are numerous. I must admit this sort of thing annoys me...really really annoys me....if I went to Irak I suspect i would wear a burkah. I would not expect all the Iraqi women there to drop their cultural beliefs and traditions and start parading round in western clothes just to please me. I dont object to England becoming multi-cultural, but I do object to the loss of our traditions and culture that becoming multi-cultural has meant.

[Mochamoo]

Re: Should it be a Public Holiday?

Just a point, surely if you are born in a country then you hold that country's passport ie in our case our passports are British or European can't remember without looking tbh.
Therefore I would argue only those who are actually born in England can claim to be English.

I was not born in England. On the basis of your statement even though I have a British accent, went to British schools (mostly) and all my family were born in the UK ....you are saying that I am not British?!?

[Sapphire]

Re: Should it be a Public Holiday?

Mocha hun, I'm saying no such thing. What I am saying that only someone born in England can claim to be English, same as those born in Wales, Scotland or Ireland can be Welsh, Scottish or Irish. Being British is a different matter as you or anyone not born on these shores can for example become 'naturalised' and then gain a 'British' passport.
IE: Someone born in say Canada can be Canadian but still hold a British passport.

I hope that explains what I mean better, I would be mortified if I was upsetting anyone.

[Mochamoo]

Re: Should it be a Public Holiday?

I'm confused now, I am British but I am not English. But as I am not Welsh, Scottish or Irish either what am I?

Just for example my partner was born in England but he is Irish. Are you saying that beacuse he was born on English soil then he is English and not Irish?

[bloomingflower]

Re: Should it be a Public Holiday?

I'm confused now, I am British but I am not English. But as I am not Welsh, Scottish or Irish either what am I?

Just for example my partner was born in England but he is Irish. Are you saying that beacuse he was born on English soil then he is English and not Irish?

Hi Mocha and all xx

I have just read this thread with much interest.. I know it's going slightly off topic lol but I must admit I agree with you Mocha.. I'm the same as you when you say you are confused lol..

I am British too, I speak with a British accent, but I have been led to believe by my parents that I'm not English, even tho I was born here in the UK. I dunno why. I have grown up to believe that I carry my parents heritage. Ive been confuddled for 44 yrs LOL.

Both my parents and my half brother weren't born in the UK, and he speaks with a British accent (he actually has a strong cockney accent lol)

My O/H of 20 yrs is British and was born in the UK too,..but he has Irish and Welsh blood in him as well.. I do consider our 3 children to be both British and English,as they were all born here...

so...... if this post doesn't leave you more confused, dunno what will.

bfxx

[Glenn UK]

Re: Should it be a Public Holiday?

Exclusive

i think you'd stand out like a sore thumb if you wore a Bukhara, as i understand it they are common in Afghanistan. In Iraq i think the term is hijab which refers to modest clothing which hides the female form not necessarily the face but often the hair.

Anyway, I take the rest of your point, the point about some offices being afraid of getting sued for offending someone is similar to my point about the us being afraid of our own shadow.

Last week i was in Abu Dhabi talking to an acquaintance of mine, I have never thought of him as anything other than English, although his name might suggest he was otherwise, Pal Patel!!

We got on to talking about colour ethnicity because of issues i perceives in the middle east and the interesting thing to me is that whilst he is aware of racial issues, he doesn't really think about them, is quite happy to live in multi cultural Britain and share his families culture with those traditionally English and in the same way share in English/British culture.

I suspect that for the vast majority of people their colour and ethnicity does not cause them to take offence at other cultural ideas or representations.

interesting issues though.

Glenn

[bottomburp]

Re: Should it be a Public Holiday?

I think the confusion arises because of the misunderstanding of the difference between being a British national and a British citizen.

I was born in England, which is part of Great Britain, which is part of the United Kingdom. Both my parents were English/British, so were their parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc. My partner's ancestry is similar to mine. We regard ourselves as English first and British second. Legally we are British nationals and British citizens.

Our daughter was born in Belgium but she's English/British because of her parentage. She is, however, entitled to a Belgian pasport (subject to certain conditions - something along the lines of residing in Belgium for three years before she's 18) but she wouldn't be Belgian! And our daughter's children will not automatically be British (which unfortunately we only found out when it was too late - i.e. after she had been born) - when we questioned why her "nationality/status" (or similar) on her birth certificate was different from my partner's and my "nationality/status" (or similar) on our birth certificates!

It thought the article below summed up the situation quite well.


British citizenship

The law relating to British nationality and citizenship is extremely complex, and the following is a highly simplified summary.


First, it is important to realize that although `Britain' and the `United Kingdom' (UK) are different, `British citizenship' really means `UK citizenship', and should be read that way (see UnitedKingdom for a definition of the `United Kingdom'; the word `British' has no clear meaning in UK law).


Second, `nationality' and `citizenship' are different things.


To be a British citizen is to be elligible for certain rights that are not available to non-citizens. One of these important rights is the right to work for pay, and to live in the UK without immigration controls. Non-citizens may be allowed to live here, perhaps permanently, and to work for pay, but not as a right. Citizenship may be aquired in certain cases.


Nationality, on the other hand, is a matter of birth. It is, in general, easier to become a British citizen if you are already a British national by birth than if you are not. At present, however, there are few privileges associated with British nationality per se.


The BritishNationalityAct1981 and later, ammending, Acts recognize five`classes' of British nationality:

• Full British citizens
• British Dependent Territories citizens (e.g., Bermuda)
• British Overseas citizens
• Citizens of British Protectorates -- `British Protected Persons'
• British Nationals (Overseas) -- specifically Hong Kong

`British Dependent Territories' are, essentially, ex-colonies; citizens of other countries that have a historic claim on British citizenship are `Overseas' citizens. The category `British Nationals (Overseas)' was introduced specifically to deal with the problem of the reversion of Hong Kong to Chinese jurisdiction. British Protectorates are countries that Britain historically had some political involvment with, but were not dependents or colonies.


Other people who continue to have some vestigial claim on British Nationality are Commonwealth citizens, and those of the republic of Ireland. Everyone else is an alien (see: Alien).


A person is automatically a full British citizen if one or both parents are settled in Britain, or are British citizens, even if domiciled overseas (see: Domicile). For those domiciled overseas, this process of inheriting British citizenship does not continue through the generations; indeed, grandchildren of such people are not automatically citizens. They may, of course, become citizens of the domicile country, in exactly the same way that children born in the UK from settled, non-citizen parents become British citizens. Note that at present one does not acquire an automatic right to citizenship by way of marriage, although this makes the process of naturalization (see below) more straightfoward.


A person who is not born a British citizen may become one in a number of ways:

• Adoption by a British citizen.
• Registration. The Secretary of State has the discretion to register any minor. Some British nationals have a right to registration (as minors or as adults), while others have to satisfy certain criteria.
• Naturalization. To obtain citizenship through naturalization one must normally satisfy four criteria. (i) One must be competent in one of the languages spoken in the UK (English, Welsh, or Gaelic). (ii) One must be of `good character', which generally means having no serious criminal convictions. (iii) One must have been continuously resident for five years (but there are complex rules about what `continuously' means). (iv) One must have an intention to make a permanent home in the UK.

Any British citizen can renounce citizenship, usually for the purposes of taking up citizenship elsewhere. One can `renounce the rennunciation' and re-establish citizenship, but only once. People who became citizens through registration of naturalization can be deprived of citizenship, usually because of criminality.

It comes from: http://www.kevinboone.com/lawglos_Br...tizenship.html

[Mochamoo]

Re: Should it be a Public Holiday?

Really confused now.... what bloody nationality am I?