Swiss bank refuses US tax request

[Legal Beagles]

UBS, Switzerland's biggest bank, refuses to hand over to a Florida court the details of US customers suspected of tax evasion.

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[righty]

Re: Swiss bank refuses US tax request

Oh dear do the Swiss never learn. The last time they tried this over the return of stolen Jewish assets Congress threatened to seize their USA & overseas assets & I have no doubt they'll do it again

[Guest]

Re: Swiss bank refuses US tax request

I fail to see why the USA believe that their courts have any jurisdiction in Switzerland.

Swiss Banking Law protects confidentiality and it is this banking secrecy which guarantees clients of Swiss banks that their information will be kept confidential and will not be passed on to private individuals or official bodies. Bankers believe their professional obligation is similar to the confidentiality provided by lawyers, doctors and the clergy.

Of course, there must be a distinction between the perfectly legal practice of tax avoidance and the criminal practice of tax evasion. Unless the USA provide details of the criminal offences they believe have been committed the Swiss should not reveal any details.

Although Swiss bank secrecy is not lifted even for tax evasion, despite requests from a foreign government because the failure to report or the underestimation of income or assets on a tax return are not considered to be crimes in Switzerland.

The Swiss are unique in that they attach greater importance to the respect of private life than they do to taxation. Banks do not have the right to inform the Swiss tax authorities and they have even less right to inform foreign tax authorities.

As Switzerland does not consider tax evasion to be a crime, it does not comply with any requests for judicial cooperation or mutual assistance from other governments. However, tax fraud (falsified documents and other sharp practice) is considered a crime in Switzerland. In such cases, bank secrecy can be lifted by a judge with jurisdiction and judicial cooperation can be granted.

The USA need all the money they can get right now, just like the UK, they have a socialist fool in the hot seat.

Did you know that if you took the $165,000,000 in bonuses paid to AIG executives and divided that by the 306,000,000 or so people in the USA it would come out to $0.54 per person? It is not that this is an insignificant amount, but it helps to use this figure in comparison to the $9,300,000,000,000 (9.3 trillion dollars) in deficit that President Obama is requesting to start up all his social programs. You see, that 9.3 trillion divided by the 306,000,000 people in the United States comes out to a staggering $30,384.51 per person.

People were threatening the lives of the AIG executives over 54 cents, but they don't blink an eye at the madness of what Obama is suggesting.

That's why they need the money and the Americans genuinely wonder why people dislike them...

[righty]

Re: Swiss bank refuses US tax request

As I stated the Swiss under pressure from the USA have already lifted their confidentiality in the case of Nazi loot & if pressured again they will again. So whatever the Swiss law or their practice they'll be forced to give way just wait & see

Also if the Swiss refuse to assist in finding tax evaders then the USA have ever right to confiscate any property or funds held in the States, by the Swiss banks

[Guest]

Re: Swiss bank refuses US tax request

Banking secrecy is not a protection from criminal investigation and Swiss legal authorities routinely cooperate with their foreign counterparts in such matters. The general rule is that an activity which both the foreign government and Switzerland consider a crime will result in cooperation, including Swiss authorities examining bank account transactions.

Prior to the 1980s, there were a number of financial activities which Switzerland did not consider criminal, but which many other countries did. Today however, Switzerland's financial legislation is quite similar to that of most other OECD countries and financial crimes in one jurisdiction are likely to be considered criminal in Switzerland.

Neither Swiss nor US tax laws permit "fishing expeditions" no matter how frustrated IRS investigators become. In addition, there are specific differences in criminal law, in particular, the legal definition of what constitutes a tax crime between Switzerland and the USA.

If the USA believe that criminal activity has taken place then let them prove it.

The concept of the presumption of innocence is one of the most basic in the US system of justice. This basic right was a gift from us in the form of English jurisprudence. The concept is embodied in several provisions of the US Constitution, such as the right to remain silent and the right to a jury.

If the IRS believe that a crime has taken place then they should demonstrate this to a Swiss court, which will then order UBS to reveal details of these accounts.

I am surprised at you righty, you appear to believe it perfectly acceptable for the USA to bully a foreign owned company into submission. Is this because any individuals involved must have Swiss bank accounts, which means they must be wealthy and therefore deserve it?

[righty]

Re: Swiss bank refuses US tax request

They didn't think the hoarding of Nazi loot was a crime & had to be forced by threats of confiscation before agreeing to open their books & despite what their law states the same will almost certainly happen again

[righty]

Re: Swiss bank refuses US tax request

UBS suffers £14bn funds withdrawal
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 10:13 PM on 05th May 2009
Ailing Swiss bank UBS has suffered a damaging exodus of clients following a high-profile row with US tax authorities.
Customers pulled nearly £14bn from UBS' private bank during the first quarter after it handed the US authorities the names of over 200 clients suspected of dodging taxes.
The revelation lays bare the damage Switzerland's banking industry has suffered during the financial meltdown of the past 18 months.
Wealthy clients attracted by the Switzerland's accommodating bank privacy laws appear to have taken fright after UBS' recent settlement in a long-running spat with the American government

[Guest]

Re: Swiss bank refuses US tax request

And this is a good thing?

[righty]

Re: Swiss bank refuses US tax request

Never said it was but why should crooks, for that is what they are if they evade tax, be protected by secrecy law

[Guest]

Re: Swiss bank refuses US tax request

I think you need to pay closer attention to what I have written.

"Banking secrecy is not a protection from criminal investigation..."

This is the whole rich vs poor thing again isn't it? It appears to be perfectly fine and indeed actively promoted by you, for people to attempt to avoid paying debts but God forbid that they avoid paying tax.

[Glenn UK]

Re: Swiss bank refuses US tax request

I think you need to pay closer attention to what I have written.



This is the whole rich vs poor thing again isn't it? It appears to be perfectly fine and indeed actively promoted by you, for people to attempt to avoid paying debts but God forbid that they avoid paying tax.

I'm not sure that was what was being advocated.

As i understand it tax evasion is a criminal activity to avoid a legal duty to pay tax.

Tax avoidance is using the tax laws to the best effect, which is not against the law to reduce or avoid your tax burden, something I and many other people do.

If there is a legal method to avoid paying ones debts then arguably this is lawful and therefore acceptable.

We could argue about the morals of taking on debt with the intent of avoiding payment using the law, however we could also argue, as i think i have done, that if the lender (who is professional and effectively is has the resources and power) does not conduct themselves lawfully then the borrower could arguably be justified in avoiding payment.

I suppose that in some sense tax evasion is considered acceptsable in some areas despite being unlawful (practices such as paying cash in hand for example, not declaring tips, etc)

however, using the rich vs poor argument, if you become rich enough to be using a swiss bank account then it becomes unacceptable, maybe.

JMHO

Glenn

[righty]

Re: Swiss bank refuses US tax request

I think you need to pay closer attention to what I have written.



This is the whole rich vs poor thing again isn't it? It appears to be perfectly fine and indeed actively promoted by you, for people to attempt to avoid paying debts but God forbid that they avoid paying tax.

I object to the rich evading tax simply because they can pay it if they wish - Your correct I DO NOT object to a debtor NOT paying if they can't nor do I object to them NOT paying if their creditor or their agents treat them poorly

I would also remind you that NOT paying your civil debts (usually because you can't) is NOT a criminal offence whereas tax evasion (& not avoidance as you state) is

That said I have absolutely no objection to rich people. Some of our best friends are rich people in fact this w/e the BH & I are off to visit friends who own an estate where we will spend the time eating fresh lobster:hungry: & opening a couple of bottle of fine wine from their cellar & that will be after we have visited our daughters Georgian townhouse:kiss:

Do I object to the rich....... hell no I wanna be one of them
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I'm not sure that was what was being advocated.

As i understand it tax evasion is a criminal activity to avoid a legal duty to pay tax.

Tax avoidance is using the tax laws to the best effect, which is not against the law to reduce or avoid your tax burden, something I and many other people do.

If there is a legal method to avoid paying ones debts then arguably this is lawful and therefore acceptable.

We could argue about the morals of taking on debt with the intent of avoiding payment using the law, however we could also argue, as i think i have done, that if the lender (who is professional and effectively is has the resources and power) does not conduct themselves lawfully then the borrower could arguably be justified in avoiding payment.

I suppose that in some sense tax evasion is considered acceptsable in some areas despite being unlawful (practices such as paying cash in hand for example, not declaring tips, etc)

however, using the rich vs poor argument, if you become rich enough to be using a swiss bank account then it becomes unacceptable, maybe.

JMHO

Glenn

Quite I object to tax evasion in all it's forms - I would also object to anyone taking on debt knowing that they had no intention of repaying it but that's not what this is about it's about me helping those who CAN'T pay not those who WON'T pay - however if in the meantime it's found that the debtor has been treat badly then if there's a legal means to stuff the OC or their often appalling agents then sobeit- Also I object to the suggestion that I would encourage illegal behaviour I would not I only encourage that which is permissible by law

When creditors begin to understand that most debtors can't pay rather than won't & start to treat debtors accordingly is the time I will advocate paying even if there's a means of avoiding it