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DWP Recovery from Estates

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  • DWP Recovery from Estates

    Address:
    Recovery from Estates
    Debt Management (BF)
    PO Box 172
    Mitcheldean
    Gloucestershire
    GL17 0XH

    Tel 0345 850 0051
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------



    Hi Everyone, my first time here and hoping for some good advice. Sorry if this is a bit long, but I've tried to explain best as I can! Also sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but feel free to move it to one more appropriate.

    My mother died in July 2011 aged 92. One of my daughters is the Executor for her Will and has done everything correctly and honestly regarding probate, which was subsequently granted.
    However, since then, the DWP have sent a letter saying Mum may have been receiving benefits she was not entitled to, enclosing a form to list details of all her savings etc.

    Now they are requesting all account statements, pass books etc. from 1996 to 2003 (she had accounts with four financial institutions), and have told my daughter not to distribute anything from Mum’s estate, including her quarter share of proceeds from the sale of her house. (The house was owned by four people; me, my two brothers and Mum, as Tenants in Common).

    The story is that in 1995 she was granted Attendance Allowance (found this in a diary) and some years later, Pension Credit. It appears that since then she had accrued too much in savings, though as far as we know she was below the threshold at the start of receiving the benefit. Over the later years she had declined both physically and mentally, which meant she lived frugally (stopped eating well and going out etc.) and this probably allowed her savings to mount. Her frailty of mind, no doubt, meant she would not have been aware of this state of affairs, and unfortunately none of us knew of her savings till after she’d died, otherwise we could have intervened to prevent such a situation arising.

    Currently all the money from Mum’s estate is now on hold in an Executor account gaining no interest, and could remain so (according to a DWP spokesperson) for many months, until this is sorted out.

    Whilst we appreciate that overpayments must be paid back, we are concerned at the demands being made by the DWP - therefore what we would like to know is:

    1) Do the DWP have a legal right to expect statements that far back? And as Pension Credit could only have been paid from 2003, why do they need statements before then?

    2) Though the DWP are advising not to distribute Mum’s estate to the beneficiaries, should that include the funds from her share of the house? In fact do they have a legal right to retrieve money from that share? As I understand it, the value of her share of the house would not have been taken into consideration when being means tested for Pension Credit?

    3) My daughter has been told that if she DOES distribute any of the funds, then she will be held accountable for repaying money owed to the DWP. Can she legally be made to pay?


    Thanks in advance for any help and advice.
    Last edited by Amethyst; 9th April 2015, 17:52:PM.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

    I have no idea about Tax Credits but I can tell you Attendance Allowance is not means tested.

    Attendance Allowance can be paid to a person with a disability who:
    is aged 65 or over and is not permanently in hospital or living in accommodation provided by or funded by a local authority
    has lived in the UK for six out of the last 12 months, actually lives in the UK when claiming and normally lives in the UK
    has care needs
    There are two rates; the lower rate for those needing help during the day; and the higher rate for those needing help during the day and night.
    Enaid x

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

      Thank you Enaid for your reply.
      I think this might be in the wrong forum to find answers, so I'll try and move it - or repost it?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

        Bumping for Jean

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

          Hello Jean,

          I think the best people to help you are the Claimants Union, if there is one where you live, and/or CAB.

          Bluebottle
          Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

            Originally posted by justjean View Post
            1) Do the DWP have a legal right to expect statements that far back? And as Pension Credit could only have been paid from 2003, why do they need statements before then?
            The legal right only goes back 6 years, they can only ask for statements going back further.

            Originally posted by justjean View Post
            2) Though the DWP are advising not to distribute Mum’s estate to the beneficiaries, should that include the funds from her share of the house? In fact do they have a legal right to retrieve money from that share? As I understand it, the value of her share of the house would not have been taken into consideration when being means tested for Pension Credit?
            Yes they do. Its buried deep in DWP regulations somewhere, but you as executor can appeal the demand if you have reason the money demanded is not lawfully due from the estate.


            Originally posted by justjean View Post
            3) My daughter has been told that if she DOES distribute any of the funds, then she will be held accountable for repaying money owed to the DWP. Can she legally be made to pay?
            Yes, its a standard DWP threat made to executors of estates the DWP thinks owes them money.

            Im sorry im not the best bearer of bad news but you should speak to an expert on DWP and see whether the grounds (specifically clerical error on the part of DWP) the money claimed can be challenged. The appeals process is clumsy.

            There are no time limits for having a clerical error put right.

            There are very short time limits to appeal a decision.

            Your first letter should ask the DWP:

            1. a detailed explanation why the money due
            2. Ask what the appeals process is
            3. Ask the DWP policy on putting right a clerical error
            4. What regulation is the DWP relying on to transfer liability to the deceased executor if the estate is wound up.

            If a house needs to be sold because it has interest accruing on a loan secured on it, then you should ask DWP to pay that interest is the postponement of sale is caused by an action on the part of the DWP.

            If you get excuses, then its beyond the scope of a forum to advise further, but appointing solicitors will only incur yet more fees and they will pay the DWP the demand without questioning it to cover their own backs.

            You need to decide whether to challenge it, or just pay it and be done with it ad save the costs of solicitors being added to the estates liabilities.

            You can go to tribunal without a solicitor; the Tribunals service has a helpline.

            http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/tribunals/aa/index.htm

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

              Originally posted by bluebottle View Post
              Hello Jean,

              I think the best people to help you are the Claimants Union, if there is one where you live, and/or CAB.

              Bluebottle
              Thank you bluebottle. The CAB seems the place to go

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

                Thank you Happy Contrails for your helpful and comprehensive reply. Not good news perhaps, but at least we know where we stand now.

                It's interesting what you say about the statements, as for the period they ask for, there will be about 96 for one Current account (twelve for each year).... and to make it worse I think Mum had a Current account with another bank too. I imagine we could end up with a box of statements! :-(

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

                  I've been looking for this information for some time - thanks. I have a couple of questions regarding Recovery from Estates as my mother-in-law died last year and probate is imminent.

                  The estate is substantial (£250k) (a surprise to all!) and the executors and beneficiaries are her 3 children.

                  - does the Probate Office automatically notify the DWP of the size of the estate?
                  - we believe she was claiming Pension Credit, which given the extent of capital, she should not have been. Presumably DWP will recover the total of any amounts paid?
                  - will DWP issue a demand to the solicitor?
                  - I understand that distribution is normally frozen pending resolution of these matters, to protect the executors from any claim. However as the executors and beneficiaries are the same people can distribution take place?

                  Thanks in advance

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

                    Originally posted by geedee0520 View Post

                    - does the Probate Office automatically notify the DWP of the size of the estate?
                    - we believe she was claiming Pension Credit, which given the extent of capital, she should not have been. Presumably DWP will recover the total of any amounts paid?
                    - will DWP issue a demand to the solicitor?
                    - I understand that distribution is normally frozen pending resolution of these matters, to protect the executors from any claim. However as the executors and beneficiaries are the same people can distribution take place?

                    Thanks in advance
                    Hi geedee

                    Your situation sounds very much like my own and I can answer some of your questions by telling you what happened in our case.
                    • the Probate Office does inform the DWP, I don't know if this is done in every case, but it seems this is certainly so when the deceased's money assets are above a certain level (as in the case of my mother). The fact that she was receiving Pension Credit would have been declared on the IHT400 form required by the Probate Office, therefore they would have been aware that because of her savings she should not have been receiving this benefit.
                    • The DWP will be wanting this money repaid...and it's a very long process. We have been told by the DWP that it "could take months"! We currently have been waiting about six weeks for them to provide us with details (our request) of what she was paid in benefits and when. Likewise we have to provide them with details.
                    • In our case we have not employed a solicitor. It should not really be necessary as it's more a question of time than skill that is involved. It rather depends on how busy you are and whether the considerable cost of a solicitor is worth while. I visited the CAB who were very helpful and incidentally said this is a VERY common problem. It is SO easy for elderly people who are not so alert any more, to fall unwittingly into this situation.
                    • The DWP do not demand that you freeze the inheritence money, but they strongly advise you not to distribute it. Because if money has to be reclaimed from the beneficiaries to repay the DWP and for some reason the recipient refuses or has spent the money, then the Executor becomes responsible. In your case the beneficiaries are her three children who are also the Executors, so it depends if they can reach an agreement between them, and if they all trust each other implicitly. A partial solution, depending on the size of the estate, could be to distribute some of the money. The three 'children' need to discuss this between them.
                    • Another important thing to consider is if one of the beneficiares dies before the DWP have been repaid, the money already distributed to that person would probably pass to their spouse, which could make it difficult to claim back!!

                    I wish you luck as these are tricky situations and can lead to bad feeling among siblings if they don't all agree! Perhaps it won't take so long in your case if the figures and details are easy to work out.

                    Hope this helps.
                    Last edited by justjean; 9th April 2012, 10:55:AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

                      Thanks for your response.

                      I'm progressing with solicitors and I'll update this thread with what happened!

                      Thanks again.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

                        Quick update:

                        - probate application only going in this week, estate value c£271k, Probate expected 3/4 weeks
                        - DWP have reclaimed overpayments of Pension, Attendance Allowance and Pension Credit (approx 1 week's amounts) shortly after date of death

                        We await DWP response to Probate Application re Pension Credit. Attendance Allowance is not means tested as far as I can see.

                        Will update once Probate etc received.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

                          Originally posted by geedee0520 View Post
                          Quick update:

                          - probate application only going in this week, estate value c£271k, Probate expected 3/4 weeks
                          - DWP have reclaimed overpayments of Pension, Attendance Allowance and Pension Credit (approx 1 week's amounts) shortly after date of death

                          We await DWP response to Probate Application re Pension Credit. Attendance Allowance is not means tested as far as I can see.

                          Will update once Probate etc received.
                          Hope it all goes well for you. Things are very slow with DWP -though they are always helpful on the phone, we are still waiting for the outcome after something like ten weeks now - with no end in sight! :-(

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

                            Further update:

                            - probate was granted on 29 May & interim distribution has commenced

                            - estate valued at £!70k plus property (c£85k)

                            - no contact from DWP either direct to executors or via solicitors.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: DWP Recovery from Estates

                              As I was writing this a letter from the DWP was landing at the solicitors!

                              Details required back to 2009.

                              More to come......

                              Comment

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