DWP excessive delays

[Bitterend]

Having searched the forum problems with the DWP seem to occur frequently.

My mother passed away Dec 2013. Probate was granted on 18 June 2014. The dwp wrote asking for overpayment of pension and pension credits. I telephoned then regarding the overpayment. At the time I asked if there was another paperwork they required and if this was the extent of the liability on the estate. They replied that there was nothing else i needed to do or pay. I confirmed the conversation by letter with the cheque for the overpayments.
I then received a letter asking for details about the estate. These were sent on the 27/7/2014.
I heard nothing for over 6 months so I wrote to them on the 2/1/15 complaining about the delay and stated that if I had not receive a definitive response by 15/1/15 I would consider the case closed and distribute the estate.
Today I received a letter 29/1/15 requesting further information.
My understanding is that creditors have to submit a claim within 2 months of notification. so the following questions arise.

1) Are the DWP considered creditors the same as any other creditor and thus required to submit a claim within 2 months of notification, or are government departments exempt from this rule, other than being preferential creditors.

2) Does a request for information constitute a claim?

3) Is there a time limit for them to deal with claims? They tell me there is not. However I do not entirely trust what the DWP say. They said they did not get my first letter, however they cashed the included cheque!

4) Are they entitled to ask for all bank statements and other financial information going back to 2007? There will clearly be financial implications in obtaining this information, which they refuse to meet.

If I do not comply with their current requests what are the implications, especially as I have previously written to them complaining about the excessive delay and requesting that they act?

I feel somewhat aggrieved that they write, and demand a response within 14 days. Their letters take 10 days in processing and posting leaving me 4 days to comply. They then just park this somewhere and forget about it for months. Yet they do not bother to respond to my letters at all!

I am not sure if there is any merit in engaging a solicitor to deal with this. I see little point of fighting the DWP in a lengthy battle, this has gone on long enough. However if the DWP are acting outside of the law then I would consider taking them on.

Further to this,
How far back can they go? My understanding is 6 years. But from when. The date of their claim? the date of their first enquiry? the date of death? or the the beginning of the tax year?

The DWP are suggesting a period of 12 years although they have only asked for documents dating back 6 1/2 years from the date of death. However they have delayed their enquiry for over a year and have not yet issued any actual bill with an amount claimed. Also the benefits which relate to this were not paid that far back.

[nemesis45]

Re: DWP excessive delays

Hi, welcome to LB.
Point 1. DWP debts are not treated the same as credit debts etc., The department has responsibility to recover all monies owed.
2. It is as it says a request for information.
3. The is no limit for pursuit of Government Debts, although in the case where the claimant is deceased the executors must make sure that they give the information to the DWP,if this shows there are no funds in the estate to met this debt that's the end.
4. The cost are to be met from the estate.
The department can go as far back as it wishes.

It's really best to deal with as requested.

nem

[wales01man]

Re: DWP excessive delays

Well stated Nem I could never put it so politely

[Bitterend]

Re: DWP excessive delays

Thank you for that.
There is plenty of conflicting information regarding this, for example,

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...s/Page-04.aspx

[des8]

Re: DWP excessive delays

That is actually not in conflict.
What it means is that DWP can only pursue an overpayment THROUGH the courts for up to six years after the final decision, BUT they can make deductions from any benefits you may be in receipt of after that time to recover overpayments

[nemesis45]

Re: DWP excessive delays

[QUOTE=Bitterend;516194]Thank you for that.
There is plenty of conflicting information regarding this, for example,


No argument with NDL's take on this,

Yes the debts become statute barred and that only means court action is barred, however the DWP can pursue debts however old they may be, make deductions from current and future benefits at any time.

All set down in the Welfare Reform Act 2012. The DWP's powers are quite reaching. Worth reading.

I have in the past discussed the 2012 Act with Lord David Freud Minister for Welfare Reform (DWP) and he supplied me with a written statement on the powers of the department when collecting debts/overpayments.

Collecting debts 25 + years old I not uncommon.
nem

[Bitterend]

Re: DWP excessive delays

It now begins to be clear. But it prompts the question that if the DWP can make deductions from future welfare payments presumably that is only from the person whom the benefit was paid to?
There are other threads on hear where the DWP are chasing people many years later for recovery of child maintenance payments, and social loans, and deducting monies from current welfare payments. Presumably the same rules apply.
Personally I think the whole system of taxation and benefits has now become so complex that it is almost impossible to administer. No one understands the system, not even the administrators. This can be seen with the number of incorrect tax returns calculated by the IR. I have had problems with being overcharged VAT, the Customs and revenue refused to admit they were wrong, it took years to sort out and they would only refund 4 years!
Dick Turpin only hid behind a mask!!

[nemesis45]

Re: DWP excessive delays

The whole regime of collecting debt owed to the Governments various departments and agencies.

The Welfare Reform Act was amended to allow such debts which amount to many millions of pounds that has been lent on social fund loans, fraudulently paid, or overpaid to benefit claimants.

The deductions from current and future payments are of course taken from the individual, there are few times when such deductions are not allowed.

There is no time limit and in the case when the debtor dies the debt can be recovered from the estate of the deceased.

nem

[seduraed]

Re: DWP excessive delays

Yes the correct mounts of benefits should be paid and yes overpayments nd frauds should be recovered . But , more goes unclaimed than is fiddled . 2billion year lost from the benefits system and sixty billion a year lost to tax avoidance and evasion. Are we chasing the wrong targets ?

[nemesis45]

Re: DWP excessive delays

Yes the correct mounts of benefits should be paid and yes overpayments nd frauds should be recovered . But , more goes unclaimed than is fiddled . 2billion year lost from the benefits system and sixty billion a year lost to tax avoidance and evasion. Are we chasing the wrong targets ?

.
I agree to some extent the amount of delinquent debt going back more than 30 years has to be recovered.

nem

[Bitterend]

Re: DWP excessive delays

My problem is the amount of time the DWP take to act. Over a year since they started and they have not yet issued a claim. In effect they can hold up the whole process of administering an estate in perpetuity, 25 years or more. This is quite unreasonable.
There is the administrator year in which the administrator of an estate is obliged to consider all claims made on an estate. Yet it would appear that the DWP can start an inquiry put it on hold, and then come back to the beneficiarys many years later, or the estate has to be held in limbo. with the DWP not being held accountable for the associated costs, and of course the loss of income from the estate. They charge interest at the rate of 10% yet the banks are only paying about 1% or less at the moment. This I find wrong.

[jack2]

Re: DWP excessive delays

In a similar position to yourself, thanks for the reply on my thread.

Have you received letters wanting bank statements? And if so do you know if they immediately request them back to the date the deceased started claiming or is there a possibility they will request statements further back than they originally request?

[Bitterend]

Re: DWP excessive delays

They sent a request asking for bank statements going back just over 6 years. It would appear to the beginning of the tax year in april. As far as I can work out they can go back as far as they wish, though you are only obliged to give them 6 years. after that they make an assessment. They only asked for the statements at that point in time, not al of them for the full 6 years. However it would appear that each case if different, depending on the sums involved the age of the recipient of the benefits when they were first applied for and/or the date of any review. In my case I heard nothing from them after their initial inquiry for over 7 months. I asked them for a statement of their claim at the beginning of January and giving them a time limit and have asked again twice since. There has been no response. I personally find this situation quite unacceptable and unreasonable.
As notice has been posted in the gazette I will give them a little longer and then distribute the estate and claim the time limit on sec 27 of the trustee act.
It would appear that there needs to be a Judicial review of this whole area, but that is an expensive process.

[des8]

Re: DWP excessive delays

A word of warning:
The act refers to "having regard only to the claims, whether formal or not, of which the trustees or personal representatives then had notice"
Notification by DWP of their investigations (and by implication a possible claim) may be taken as an informal claim (and subsequently cause hassle for the executor)
Also, the fact of distribution of assets does not mean DWP won't follow the cash. The beneficiaries will receive demands for repayment of overpaid benefits.
Whether any overpayment is due to error by either DWP or claimant matters not. The overpayment is of state funds and the DWP will claim it back (even if we think excessive delays are unfair and unreasonable).