Freezing the assets of an estate

[Amlodhi]

Re: Freezing the assets of an estate

Try this tim.tookey@lloydsbanking.com

Thank you very much indeed for this - I'll act on it as soon as I can (and I hope to let you know the outcome).

[Amlodhi]

Re: Freezing the assets of an estate

Hi there - sorry for yet another delay, but things don't exactly move fast in the legal world, do they!

Whatever, I took enaid's advice and emailed Tim Tookey direct. Within a week I received a phone call from the Customer Services apologising for the lack of response. In fact, the guy was very helpful and promised a long letter explaining their view of the matter. This materialised a few days later, and it undertook to continue looking on their microfiche storage for the information I had requested. This I am now awaiting.

I think I have now reached the end of this stage of my executorship. With the evidence I have amassed, I confronted my wayward siblings by email; they eventually responded through a newly appointed solicitor and have refused to answer my questions.

Thanks to all of you who have given such helpful advice while I have been posting here - if I need further help, I'll certainly get back to you. All the best.

[Amlodhi]

Re: Freezing the assets of an estate

And here we are again .... I have just posted to CleverClogs on "Removing an Executor" as it seemed to be in the same vein as my problems.

My mother's estate is still not wound down as the situation is becoming increasingly suspicious - indeed, the way things are going, I may have to consider referring the entire matter to the police for a thorough investigation.

I would just like to sound out a few points for clarification before I start down the path of really serious correspondence with LTSB's Customer Service Centre in Andover (incidentally, can one just turn up at a Customer Service Centre and demand to speak to someone?).

First, the cash point cards: I have received yet another letter from the LTSB Customer Services stating the same thing again, ie how things can't all fit onto their computers and may "drop off the end". But it could not hide the underlying fact that they were still unable to trace the provenance of the 2 cash point cards.

General questions on cash cards:

• What do banks do when someone requests a cash card on someone else's account? Do the individual branches print and issue them themselves or do they have to apply to a card-issuing centre or similar?
• I understand that cash cards should have the name, not only of the person whose account is being accessed, but also the name of the person who is doing the accessing. Is this correct?
• When cash cards are issued, are they automatically linked in the bank's computers to the account of the person whose account is being accessed? I ask because when my local LTSB manager first detected the use of cash cards on my mother's account, he was surprised that it had not been linked, which led to subsequent difficulty in locating it.
• Should a bank have paperwork or a computerised record of the issue of a cash card? Seems to me that they should have for their own records and in case of future enquiries ....

I also believe I have the right, as executor of my mother's estate to ask for a copy of all papers, etc, held by an organisation on said estate. Can anyone confirm this and explain how I go about doing this?

As ever, grateful for any help you guys can provide.


An unrelated topic: it would be helpful to be sent email notifications when someone posts on threads I subscribe to, but I don't get any. Does anyone know how to set that up?

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Freezing the assets of an estate

Hiya,

I can't advise on the financial side, however, I know that if you were to turn up at the call centre and demand to speak to someone in person you would be escorted from the premises.
The guideline on "unauthorised visits" is to politely and firmly insist on their departure, then inform security who will attempt to escort the person off the premises, if that doesn't work call 999.
This is due to people turning up and threatening or (in extreme cases) assualting staff.

[calamity jane]

Re: Freezing the assets of an estate

An unrelated topic: it would be helpful to be sent email notifications when someone posts on threads I subscribe to, but I don't get any. Does anyone know how to set that up?

Click on Settings at top of page, Scroll down to My Settings and click on General Settings. Default Thread Subscription Mode give you the option of how to receive email notification.CJ

[bluebottle]

Re: Freezing the assets of an estate

And here we are again .... I have just posted to CleverClogs on "Removing an Executor" as it seemed to be in the same vein as my problems.

My mother's estate is still not wound down as the situation is becoming increasingly suspicious - indeed, the way things are going, I may have to consider referring the entire matter to the police for a thorough investigation.

I would just like to sound out a few points for clarification before I start down the path of really serious correspondence with LTSB's Customer Service Centre in Andover (incidentally, can one just turn up at a Customer Service Centre and demand to speak to someone?).

First, the cash point cards: I have received yet another letter from the LTSB Customer Services stating the same thing again, ie how things can't all fit onto their computers and may "drop off the end". But it could not hide the underlying fact that they were still unable to trace the provenance of the 2 cash point cards. Have requests for cash cards been made following your mother's passing? If this has happened, LTSB should have them cancelled immediately. Also, if they were advised of your mother's passing promptly, they should have alerted you to any requests for the issue of cash cards.

General questions on cash cards:

• What do banks do when someone requests a cash card on someone else's account? Do the individual branches print and issue them themselves or do they have to apply to a card-issuing centre or similar? A number of firms make them for the banks and other financial organisations.
• I understand that cash cards should have the name, not only of the person whose account is being accessed, but also the name of the person who is doing the accessing. Is this correct? Usually, it will be the name of the person in whose name the account is held.
• When cash cards are issued, are they automatically linked in the bank's computers to the account of the person whose account is being accessed? I ask because when my local LTSB manager first detected the use of cash cards on my mother's account, he was surprised that it had not been linked, which led to subsequent difficulty in locating it? The account details are encoded onto the card (chip, magnetic stripe). The PIN is a key to access the ATM network and pay for goods in shops, etc.. Most cards are VISA enabled. When a cash withdrawal is requested, the request goes to the VISA main server and is then passed on to the Banking Centre of your bank where it will be authorised or declined.
• Should a bank have paperwork or a computerised record of the issue of a cash card? Seems to me that they should have for their own records and in case of future enquiries .... They should hold records of requests for issue of a card, but not the PIN.

I also believe I have the right, as executor of my mother's estate to ask for a copy of all papers, etc, held by an organisation on said estate. Can anyone confirm this and explain how I go about doing this? As an executor, you have the right and a duty to request copies of documentation held by any organisation who are making a claim on the estate or who have a financial interest in the estate. Usually, the easiest way to prove you are the executor is to furnish a certified copy of the will appointing you as an executor. It is usual to be asked to provide proof of your identity.

As ever, grateful for any help you guys can provide.


An unrelated topic: it would be helpful to be sent email notifications when someone posts on threads I subscribe to, but I don't get any. Does anyone know how to set that up?

I hope what I have highlighted in red is helpful. Any other queries, please come back onto this thread.

[Amlodhi]

Re: Freezing the assets of an estate

Many thanks to Calamity Jane and Bluebottle above.

I have now received a definitive reply from Lloyds TSB's Customer Services on the cash point cards issued on my mother's account; it states "... we have no information on record in respect of the cards other than the details of the withdrawals shown on the bank statement ......" The LTSB chappie seems to accept this as the end position, although he does suggest that if I remain suspicious, I may want to seek legal advice. He also states that if I do not agree his view, I can refer the matter to the FOS. But, regardless, should he not be investigating the cards’ provenance?

As far as I understand, when the LTSB bank official agreed that my siblings could rightfully hold cash point cards on our mother’s account:

· A record of the meeting and the LTSB decision should have been entered on our mother’s Customer Notes. To support such a decision, the bank would need either a written statement from my mother agreeing to the cards being issued, or possibly written medical proof that she was not fully capable of managing her own affairs. According to LTSB, there is nothing.
· An application form of sorts would need to be completed and sent to the card-issuing centre, or transferred by the bank branch into a computerised request. LTSB has admitted there is nothing.
· A copy of basic data, ie the date of the cards ‘issue, who they were sent to, etc, should have been retained on the bank records – they cannot just issue cards willy-nilly. There should possibly also have been copies of letters sent to the cash cards’ holders providing them with PINs. Again, they appear to have admitted have nothing.
· I have also been informed by one of the LTSB bank managers I spoke to that it is normal practice to withdraw any existing bank card (my mother held a debit card) should have been withdrawn when the cash cards were issued. That said, the manager said that if a customer produced a good enough reason, they would allow an existing card to remain in circulation. If there was agreement on this point, an entry on the Customer Notes would have been almost de rigeur. But the debit card was not withdrawn and there is no mention of a discussion or agreement.
· The two cash cards should have been linked to my mother’s account – both LTSB managers I spoke to had difficulty in finding them.

Am I now justified in being highly suspicious of the cards’ origins? I suppose the obvious, very leading question is: could someone who had the right knowledge and connections be able to obtain such cards without going through the bank’s normal channels?

Any ideas out there?

[leclerc]

Re: Freezing the assets of an estate

In who's name was the cards issued to? The bank should have a record of that.
When were the cards ordered? The bank should have a record of that.
What is the date and time of the withdrawals and the locations of the withdrawals? The bank should have a record of that.
Have you alleged that they were fraudulently used? Will the bank investigate that?

[leclerc]

Re: Freezing the assets of an estate

And here we are again .... I have just posted to CleverClogs on "Removing an Executor" as it seemed to be in the same vein as my problem
Am doing a bit of catch up on these questions asked.
My mother's estate is still not wound down as the situation is becoming increasingly suspicious - indeed, the way things are going, I may have to consider referring the entire matter to the police for a thorough investigation.

I would just like to sound out a few points for clarification before I start down the path of really serious correspondence with LTSB's Customer Service Centre in Andover (incidentally, can one just turn up at a Customer Service Centre and demand to speak to someone?).

First, the cash point cards: I have received yet another letter from the LTSB Customer Services stating the same thing again, ie how things can't all fit onto their computers and may "drop off the end". But it could not hide the underlying fact that they were still unable to trace the provenance of the 2 cash point cards.

General questions on cash cards:

• What do banks do when someone requests a cash card on someone else's account? Do the individual branches print and issue them themselves or do they have to apply to a card-issuing centre or similar? They should be ensuring that the person is authorised on the account, so for example Power of Attorney, Joint account holder, etc, etc,. Not all the time is an application required for the issuing of a card but certainly POA and Joint account holder details should be held and it would include ID details.
• I understand that cash cards should have the name, not only of the person whose account is being accessed, but also the name of the person who is doing the accessing. Is this correct? I am not so sure that this is the case, but it should have the person who the card is issued to however.
• When cash cards are issued, are they automatically linked in the bank's computers to the account of the person whose account is being accessed? I ask because when my local LTSB manager first detected the use of cash cards on my mother's account, he was surprised that it had not been linked, which led to subsequent difficulty in locating it.100% yes it should be. If it had not been linked then how could the money be withdrawn from the account in the first place
• Should a bank have paperwork or a computerised record of the issue of a cash card? Seems to me that they should have for their own records and in case of future enquiries ... Computerised record of the issue of a cash card is a yes, ie date of issue and sometimes where it is sent. I have to confess that I am speaking with knowledge of RBS Systems which will differ to LTSB systems.

I also believe I have the right, as executor of my mother's estate to ask for a copy of all papers, etc, held by an organisation on said estate. Can anyone confirm this and explain how I go about doing this?
I would normally say Subject access request but since the subject is deceased I hope someone has answered the question.
As ever, grateful for any help you guys can provide.


An unrelated topic: it would be helpful to be sent email notifications when someone posts on threads I subscribe to, but I don't get any. Does anyone know how to set that up?

See above and apologies for not spotting it earlier.....

[Amlodhi]

Re: Freezing the assets of an estate

In who's name was the cards issued to? The bank should have a record of that.
When were the cards ordered? The bank should have a record of that.
What is the date and time of the withdrawals and the locations of the withdrawals? The bank should have a record of that.
Have you alleged that they were fraudulently used? Will the bank investigate that?

This is the problem, Leclerk - the bank official has stated that they has no evidence of the existence of the cash cards except the transactions displayed on my mother's bank statements, which obviously have the date, time, amount and locations of the withdrawals. As I said, the official has made it reasonably plain in his letter that if I want to take the matter further, I should take legal advice or, alternatively, approach the FOS. Should I reply and challenge the official?

(Please note I am away now until next Monday - MIL problems!)

[Amlodhi]

Re: Freezing the assets of an estate

See above and apologies for not spotting it earlier.....

Thanks a million, Leclerk - will look at this in detail when i return home next Monday.