Suspicious that a Will cannot be found. What next?

[Carlson999]

you should be able to access the full letters of administration from the probate registry for a small fee.

Yes, just paid to get them. I thought they'd be downloadable instantly, but I think they'll get mailed instead.

[Carlson999]

you should be able to access the full letters of administration from the probate registry for a small fee.

Received the grant document now stating the administrator is indeed her spouse.

[Carlson999]

First stumbling block: understandably, the Administrative solicitors need to remain impartial and won't help with anything other than signing/distributing the assets. But, to obtain a copy of my mother's previous Will, meeting notes and medical records a letter from the Executor is needed, and they won't do that.

Not sure how to go about getting these documents now.

[BlakSheep]

Carlson999 you do not need the consent of the executor to obtain a parent’s medical records. You may need the death certificate and proof your relationship to the deceased to make your request directly to records manager at the hospital and/or GP practice. It is important to provide proof of identity and your relationship to whomever’s medical records you wish to access.

[Carlson999]

Carlson999 you do not need the consent of the executor to obtain a parent’s medical records. You may need the death certificate and proof your relationship to the deceased to make your request directly to records manager at the hospital and/or GP practice. It is important to provide proof of identity and your relationship to whomever’s medical records you wish to access.

Ok thank you. I'll try it.

[PallasAthena]

This NHS guidance suggests the process is more complicated than suggested in Post #34 and that if you are not the Personal Representative (Executor) their views may be taken into account in deciding whether to release the records to you.

NHS England » Getting copies of medical records

Access to the health and care records of deceased people - NHS Transformation Directorate

[Carlson999]

Update after a video call with another Solicitor:

1. The Administrating solicitor "should" request the previous Will and notes and provide me with them as part of their impartial release of information in the situation. I'll send them a formal letter requesting they do such.

2. After I receive this and medical records there may be a case of mental incapacity, BUT.....solicitor has never known a case of marriage anulment after death, and proceeding with a court case is costly with little chance of success (as I thought, so it's a no go).

3. If suitable, I will use the above information as a bargaining tool to create a Deed Of Variation for the surviving spouse to sign, with admittedly only a small glimmer of hope he finds it in himself to do what my mother wanted, and that's leave the property to her grandchildren (not me) after his death.

4. If the above fails, I'll use my 7% ownership allowance of the property under intestacy law to request joint ownership instead of taking payment and signing all over.

Writing a Deed of Variation will cost over 500 GBP I think and that might be money down the drain, so I'd like to explore the possibility of writing my own using a template/examples even though it wouldn't have the impact compared to it coming from a Solicitor. Bad idea?

[BlakSheep]

PallasAthena The level of governance varies depending on what is being accessed hospital records vs GP records. I speak from personal experience of obtaining both. The practice may request additional evidence of status a next of kin and/or personal rep.

[PallasAthena]

PallasAthena The level of governance varies depending on what is being accessed hospital records vs GP records. I speak from personal experience of obtaining both. The practice may request additional evidence of status a next of kin and/or personal rep.

I also speak from personal experience. The NHS rules on the link are clear.

[BlakSheep]

Reality vs perception is that should or must?

[Carlson999]

Can I ask for some opinions/knowledge on the contents of my Deeds of Variation please.

I've constructed the letter on the off-chance the spouse will see it right to honour my late mother's wishes that the property pass to her grandchildren on his death. Under intestacy laws as they stand, he'll receive the vast majority of the property value.

My Deeds of Variation request him to sign over his 322K part of the property to a Discretionary Trust for the grandchildren. However, I'm confused what would happen to the remaining value of the house which is 375K at present, but more likely to be 420K if sold on the open market. The residuary is halved between us, so in effect we would still both own part of the property so the children couldn't actually rent it out/live there/sell it. Likely to be further problems when his half passes down to his own children anytime in the next few years. What's the best way to include this in the DOV? Request that he (and I) also give up our remaining 50% property portions to the Trust?

[HariSeldon]

If the above fails, I'll use my 7% ownership allowance of the property under intestacy law to request joint ownership instead of taking payment and signing all over.

That's not how it works. You are (presumably) entitled to the equivalent of 7% of the value of the estate (not specifically the property) and if the administrator decides to pay you 7% of that value then you don't get to choose to refuse and insist on joint ownership of the property instead.

Writing a Deed of Variation will cost over 500 GBP I think and that might be money down the drain, so I'd like to explore the possibility of writing my own using a template/examples even though it wouldn't have the impact compared to it coming from a Solicitor. Bad idea?

From what you've said previously it sounds like a Deed of Variation will not be agreed to and so the whole exercise is pretty pointless. At this stage I wouldn't bother trying to draft an actual deed, simply contact the husband to see if they would agree to a such a deed in principle and, in the unlikely event they show willing, that's when £500 to a solicitor to do the job properly may be the best money you ever spend on your kids.

How old are your children and how often did they visit your mum? If the answer is "not very often" then to be brutally honest I think you should look on the bright side and be thankful you are getting anything at all. As you were estranged from your mother, for all you know she changed her mind and the new will she intended to make may have left everything to her partner of 30 years and his children...

[Carlson999]

That's not how it works. You are (presumably) entitled to the equivalent of 7% of the value of the estate (not specifically the property) and if the administrator decides to pay you 7% of that value then you don't get to choose to refuse and insist on joint ownership of the property instead.



From what you've said previously it sounds like a Deed of Variation will not be agreed to and so the whole exercise is pretty pointless. At this stage I wouldn't bother trying to draft an actual deed, simply contact the husband to see if they would agree to a such a deed in principle and, in the unlikely event they show willing, that's when £500 to a solicitor to do the job properly may be the best money you ever spend on your kids.

How old are your children and how often did they visit your mum? If the answer is "not very often" then to be brutally honest I think you should look on the bright side and be thankful you are getting anything at all. As you were estranged from your mother, for all you know she changed her mind and the new will she intended to make may have left everything to her partner of 30 years and his children...

Thanks for your reply Hari. I'm entitled to 50% of the estate residuary (the 7% was just my proportional calculation on my part of the property alone). The Administrating solicitor did say that I could potentially enter into a joint ownership of the property (as the spouse's amount would be less than the total value of the property), or he could request to buy me out. I am, however, confused who would actually own the house and maintain the rights to sell it if he were to give up his 322,000 GBP yet the value of the house is 400k.

Her grandchildren are 20, 14 and 7. The older two did see her up to 10 years ago until something major happened and then all contact was cut off (cemented by a court order). Her older Will would definitely have never left the property to her spouse and his adult children, and would have left it to her grandchildren. I have a copy of a 2016 letter (not Will) saying so. But that's pretty irrelevant now in a legal sense because it's invalid. It could be relevant in a moral sense IF the spouse sees it in his heart to follow her wishes, which he always knew about. That's why I'm trying this.

Agree with what you said about testing the water first, and then going to the solicitor to create the proper deed.

Thanks.

[HariSeldon]

I'm entitled to 50% of the estate residuary (the 7% was just my proportional calculation on my part of the property alone). The Administrating solicitor did say that I could potentially enter into a joint ownership of the property

Yes that's what I figured. The key word there is 'potentially' and it would require both beneficiaries to agree, if they don't then the Administrator will sell the property and distribute the cash accordingly; neither you or the husband gets to unilaterally dictate what happens to the property.

I am, however, confused who would actually own the house and maintain the rights to sell it if he were to give up his 322,000 GBP yet the value of the house is 400k.

In the unlikely event he agreed to this I would expect it to be on condition that you both give up your rights to the house in favour of a trust for your children; the trustees would then be the ones with the rights to sell it depending on the terms of the trust.

However there are so many negatives in this case that I'd say a Trust is a non-starter. Giving away the house would be treated as deprivation of assets when/if the 80-ish year old husband needs any care, costs in setting up the trust, costs/responsibility for maintaining the property, grandchildren under 18 means more legal involvement and costs etc.

The older two did see her up to 10 years ago ... It could be relevant in a moral sense IF the spouse sees it in his heart to follow her wishes, which he always knew about.

To be fair to the husband and to give you an impartial different perspective which may temper your aggrievement, ten years is an awfully long time and people's attitudes and relationships change. I'm involved in one now where a (completely compos mentis) eighty-year old who just two years ago had every intention of leaving a property to one of their children is now flip-flopping because the child rarely visited them or kept in touch over the last few years...

[Carlson999]

That’s interesting. The solicitor didn’t make me aware of all the options and consequences regarding the property and because I’m asking a lot of questions and not just signing, has slowed down her responses. I was of the impression that the Administrator couldn’t sell the house unless both parties agreed too, because a spouse can’t be “kicked out”.

In terms of future care, irrespective of the property situation, he would still benefit from over 120k. I will look into costs of setting up a discretionary trust for minors. I can’t see another bargaining tool, because he certainly wouldn’t forego anything to me directly.