Language of Will and TNRB - grateful for help

[SnowedUnder]

I'm trying to work out this old will for a TNRB but find the repeated references to trusts confusing. It mentions leaving everything to the man's wife 'absolutely' so I believe the transferable nil rate band can be claimed but then I wonder:

a) does it form a trust

b) Does it matter if it does form a trust? (ie might that be considered not going direct to the wife and prevent TNRB?)

Very grateful for help on this. Thank you.

1) I appoint WIFE and Mr solicitor (who together with the trustees or trustees for the time being hereof are hereinafter called 'my Trustees') to be the EXECUTORS and TRUSTEES of this my will.
2) I devise and bequeath all of my estate...unto my Trustees upon Trust to...with power in their discretion…after payment thereof of my funeral and testamentary expenses and debts hereby or by any codicil here to bequeathe Upon Trust to invest such moneys in their names or under their control and to stand possessed of such investments and of all the residue of my Estate for the time being unsold (herinafter called 'my Residuary Estate') upon the following trusts that is to say:- a) Upon Trust for the said WIFE absolutely provided that she shall be living at the date of my death. ...(or for the son if WIFE has died).

[atticus]

deleted.

[sederunt]

Full TNRB is available.

[SnowedUnder]

Full TNRB is available.

Thank you for your help Sederunt.

Do you know if it makes any difference if the will applied back in 1980 when Capital Transfer Tax existed instead of IHT? No other gifts had been made.

(And if you have a moment, did it actually form a trust or did it just not matter as the spouse was the sole beneficiary? It's like a crossword puzzle that has been driving me mad to find out!)

Really appreciate your time, thanks so much.

[SnowedUnder]

deleted.

Thank you for reading Atticus.
I'm not sure if deleted means something is deleted from the language of the will or a trust, or whether you were deleting your message... Any clarification welcome!

[atticus]

I deleted a post that was intended for another thread! Your other interpretation makes no sense.

[Pezza54]

Please read the guidance "Transferring unused basic threshold for Inheritance Tax" at www.gov.uk
Provided the couple were married or in a civil partnership at the date of the death of the first spouse to die (1980) then unused NRB can be transferred

The will does seem to create a trust, controlled by the appointed trustees (wife and solicitor) who are also the named executors
The wife if she is still living at the time of death of the testator is the beneficiary of the trust. Unless there are any other trust terms, and with the solicitor's agreement, I assume she can withdraw all the money from the trust if she wants to

It is possible that the testator is concerned about his wife's mental capacity to manage assets when he dies

If the wife predeceases the testator and the son is still a minor, then a trust administered by the solicitor, will be required until the son is 18

[SnowedUnder]

Please read the guidance "Transferring unused basic threshold for Inheritance Tax" at www.gov.uk
Provided the couple were married or in a civil partnership at the date of the death of the first spouse to die (1980) then unused NRB can be transferred

The will does seem to create a trust, controlled by the appointed trustees (wife and solicitor) who are also the named executors
The wife if she is still living at the time of death of the testator is the beneficiary of the trust. Unless there are any other trust terms, and with the solicitor's agreement, I assume she can withdraw all the money from the trust if she wants to

It is possible that the testator is concerned about his wife's mental capacity to manage assets when he dies

If the wife predeceases the testator and the son is still a minor, then a trust administered by the solicitor, will be required until the son is 18

Thank you very much for this. Great to understand. I believe then - that there is no problem in the whole TNRB being available whether it was a trust or not. (There was nothing to prevent the spouse appointing the assets to herself immediately.)

[Pezza54]

Yes if she has mental capacity and the solicitor trustee agrees

[SnowedUnder]

Yes if she has mental capacity and the solicitor trustee agrees

So helpful Pezz54 thank you ever so much. So to make sure I've absolutely got it correct for future reference:

To receive the full TNRB it doesn't matter if the estate of the first to die passes through a trust as long as the sole beneficiary of the trust is the spouse?

Basically if the beneficiary is named as the spouse, it doesn't matter the mechanism as to how they gain the assets? (Have I got that right?!)

[Pezza54]

I can't see the point of paying legal fees to set up a trust if the sole beneficiary of the trust intends to take out everything in the trust as soon as it is set up

If a trust is set up solely for the benefit of children and grandchildren and the property is held in trust absolutely for the benefit of direct descendants then RNRB will apply

So you have got it right. The principle for TNRB is the same

[Pezza54]

Please read "My Will has a nil rate rate band discretionary trust in it, should I change it?" at www.battens.co.uk
Before 2007, when IHT legislation was changed and TNRB was introduced, this type of trust was quite common
TRNB was not available then, so couples would leave £325k in trust to their children, to make use of the £325k NRB available for the first spouse to die

Couples should decide whether they want to remove this type of trust from their will

[SnowedUnder]

Thank you. Very interesting and helpful. I'm enjoying the reading!!


In total contrast is it ok if one makes a will these days that is very simple - when you just want to leave a very simple estate to one person?

"I appoint as executors and trustees of my will John Smith and Pete Smith.

I give all my share and interest in my house, 23 House st, Trumpton, to my son, John Smith

I give the rest of my estate to my executors and trustees to hold on trust to pay my debts and testamentary expenses and pay the residue to my son, John Smith, but if he fails to survive me to by 28 days or this gift or any part of it fails for any other reason then I GIVE the residue of my estate or the part of it affected to my grandson, Pete Smith.


Is that a watertight passing on of the residence? And any other assets? Is this ok?

[Pezza54]

There is a "Last Will and Testament " template at http://www.wonder.lega/uk/creation-m...l-testament-uk for a straight forward will where the testator is not married or in a civil partnership. Have you got divorced since your first post?
The will produced provides a bit more info than your last post but it is basically the same
The property is included in the residuary estate - this will cover the event of the testator moving to a different address

Sorry the link is not working- just google wonder legal last will and testament

The testator can also include their funeral wishes in the will: cremation, burial, flowers, charity donations, music etc