Death of a Joint Executor before Probate completed

[Northern Guy]

My wife is joint executor, together with her stepsister, of her late stepfather's estate. He died 5 years ago. She is also sole executor of her late mother's estate, who died this year. The home owned by her mother and stepfather was held as tenants in common in equal shares. Grant of Representation has been issued for both estates this year.

She is in the early stages of selling the now vacant home the deceased lived in, having accepted a buyer's offer and completed initial TA6 & TA10 property forms. The conveyancing solicitors said they would deal with her alone as her mother died after the stepfather, something that confused me somewhat. I had assumed that the stepsister, as joint executor of the stepfather's estate, would still have had some say in things, but that is what they said in their letter.

Anyway, her stepsister (and joint executor) recently died. Google suggests the remaining executor can carry on acting, but the Grant of Representation for that estate will need to be reissued reflecting just my wife as now sole executor. I'm looking for some confirmation that Google is correct, that the buyer's solicitor will indeed require this (rather than just proof of death of the joint executor) and any idea of how long that might take and at what cost? If so, I assume I contact the probate registry with death certificate for the joint executor, and pay some admin fee?

[Pezza54]

From what I have read I am not sure your last paragraph is correct

If your wife's stepsister had a will then the named executor in her will takes over the role of joint executor to the stepfather's estate.

There is no requirement for this potential new executor to apply for probate

This executor may decide to renounce their executor duties but should be offered the executor role

The stepfather owned a share in the property being sold so his share of the proceeds of the sale should follow his will

The conveyancing solicitor your wife appointed would not have wanted to correspond with 2 executors which is understandable to avoid any duplication

If the stepfather's share of the property didn't pass to your mother-in-law then the owner or owners that inherited his share will have to sign transfer forms (coordinated through your wife)

This is complicated and I could be wrong. Hopefully another forum user will confirm or disagree

[Northern Guy]

The wife of the stepfather only had a 'right to remain' in the house after her husband died; his Will then passed his share to his children of a previous marriage. That Will of the stepfather appointed three executors. One (his surviving wife) was declared incapable, and later died. It also named his daughter and my wife as executors. These two obtained probate this year, jointly. That daughter (my wife's step sister) recently died.

As probate was already issued when the stepsister died, does my wife as sole surviving executor need to do anything to continue to act in the house sale? The house share belonging to the late husband has not been transferred to my knowledge yet, it should have been put in the names of the executors as trustees, I believe.

I was surprised that the conveyancer had any choice in involving the stepsister/joint executor when she was alive, though this point appears academic since she died. The immediate question is whether my wife can continue to act as sole surviving executor in the stepfather's Will, or whether she must contact the probate registry?

[Pezza54]

Did the stepsister have a will? If she did who was named executor?

[Northern Guy]

I don't know. The death was quite unexpected, and she was financially troubled, so quite possibly not. But how would such a Will effect the inheritance from her father's estate, which specified what he left to his children passing to their children in the event of death? This is already the case with the late brother of the stepsister, whose children will inherit his share, our solicitor said.

[Pezza54]

The stepsister's shared ownership of the property needs to pass under the terms of her will or by the rules of intestacy if she didn't leave a will
The new owner or owners with a share of the property will have to sign property transfer forms

[Northern Guy]

Oh I see, because the stepsister was alive when her father died, that share now passes via her Will or else intestacy, so those recipients must sign to sell.

Had she lived to exchange of contracts, would the stepsister (as executor) have had to sign sale documents, despite the conveyancing solicitors aforementioned intention not to involve her in correspondence?

[Pezza54]

Yes
Form TA6 Definitions: Seller means all sellers together where the property is owned by more than one person
Page 12 All sellers should sign the form

Your wife's conveyancing solicitor should have told her about this requirement

[Northern Guy]

Well they certainly didn't. Their letter (there was no conversation) said that they'd deal with my wife as her mother (half property owner) had died after the stepfather. Seemed wrong to me even as a layman, by assuming the later owner to die somehow displaced the interests of the former estate. They've had the TA6 & TA10 a couple of weeks now, and although they've queried a minor detail, nothing has been said about the fact only my wife signed the forms. I wonder might the buyer's solicitors query the point when these docs are exchanged?

[Pezza54]

Yes it could cause a delay. Your wife should contact the solicitor
Is it possible your wife inherited her stepsister's share and didn't tell you, or you weren't listening when she did?

[Northern Guy]

Is it possible your wife inherited her stepsister's share and didn't tell you, or you weren't listening when she did?

Me not listening to my wife? That would be one crime carrying a serious penalty in this household...

No, my wife will not inherit anything from her stepfather's half, we saw his Will, and likewise the troublesome stepsister only reached good terms with my wife shortly before she died. If she did ever write a Will, her children will be the only beneficiaries. Mostly likely there wasn't one, and now divorced, the stepsister's adult children will inherit under intestacy rules.

We have told the solicitor, who will look into this is the new year. I will insert the phrasing used to explain my wife alone being asked to sign the TA6 & TA10. If they continued in this path, it seems it would simplify matters from my wife's perspective, but be legally wrong from what you say?

Please see the initial paperwork for the sale of the above property - to explain, I have opened in your sole name only as the property was owned as Tenants in Common and as your mother was the last one to pass away, we can only act for the people listed on her Grant of Probate which is you. (Stepsister) by all means can still assist you with the paperwork and any other enquiries, it is just you that will need to sign.

[Pezza54]

Please correct me if I'm wrong
Your wife owns 50% share of the property (inherited from her mother)
The adult children of your wife's stepsister own equal shares of 50% of the property (inherited from their mother, the stepsister under intestacy rules)
Your wife should contact the other owners. Hopefully they will agree to the property being sold so they can receive their share of the proceeds
Form TA6 is clear in that all sellers (joint owners) should sign the form

Returning to post 2, 2nd paragraph
The stepsister was joint executor of her father's estate. When the stepsister died the administrator of her estate ( assuming it is one of her children to be appointed following intestacy rules) has the right to act as executor for their grandfather's estate
It is possible that this executor and administrator will be concerned if all the proceeds of the sale are paid to your wife and the conveyancing solicitor should understand this and make provision to divide up the funds

[Northern Guy]

Yes, my wife will inherit 50% of the property sale proceeds, from her mother. She was sole beneficiary & executor of that Will, and probate has been granted.

The late stepsister was one of three children/beneficiaries of her father's (my wife's stepfather's) Will, the other 50% share of the house. By the time of the stepfather's death, one of those three children had died, that share then passing to the two grandchildren of the stepfather instead.

We don't know if the recently deceased stepsister left a Will or not, but very likely her two adult children will inherit the late stepsister's share by Will or else intestacy.

All concerned are likely to want their share of the property sale, which has already been greatly delayed by matters relating to the mother's incapacity and then death, each delaying probate then sale.

Probate was obtained for the stepfather's half share in the name of my wife and the (now deceased) stepsister. Note my wife was an executor in but not a beneficiary of her stepfather's Will.

If I understand you correctly, the adult children of the late stepsister/coexecutor now have a right to act as executors in their grandfather's estate. Does the surviving son of that stepfather also have such a right? And would either have to apply for this to be granted?

I don't believe it is the intention of the conveyancers to do anything other than pass the sale proceeds to their probate team who will distribute the late stepfather's half (by prior arrangement) whilst passing the other half to my wife as executor of her mother's estate.

What do you think of that quoted paragraph from the conveyancer, is it correct?

[Pezza54]

No just the stepsister's 2 children have the right to take up the role of executor of their grandfather's estate in addition to personal representative of their mother's estate. If any of them wish to take up the executor role they do not need to apply to probate. If they decline this role your wife should obtain these refusals in writing
IMO your wife should contact all the other co-owners (beneficiaries) of the property and obtain their agreement to sell the property after assuring them that the solicitor will distribute the proceeds of the sale either by the provisions of the will or by intestacy rules.
If your wife has 3 step-siblings then the shares should be:
Your wife 50%
2 step-siblings 16.66% each
2 grandchildren 8.33% each

[Northern Guy]

OK, so the grandchildren could step into their late mother's place with no formalities required. I agree with your distribution calculations. Do I take it from your suggestion that my my wife should contact the other beneficiaries regarding the recently started sale and obtain agreement, that you disagree with the quoted paragraph from the conveyancer, namely that the stepsister/coexecutor 'can assist' but notably it did not state that her agreement, still less the non-executor beneficiaries agreement, should be formally obtained?