LB v Tiscali*** WON ***

[argentarius]

Re: LB v Tiscali

LB

I don't see that claiming that "you entered into the contract when you shouldn't have done so" is going to help your case.

Surely the fact remains that your son wished the service to be provided; you merely facilitated that on his behalf.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: LB v Tiscali

The fact remains, Tiscali's own code of conduct states that they will make sure that whoever they enter into a contract with, IS authorised to set that contract up.

As they didn't, they have broken their own code of conduct. Let's face it, I could have been Joe Bloggs and done all this, and they'd have been none the wiser. And my lad would have been left wondering why he was getting his phone calls for free.

By bringing this up, and pointing out their other failings, I am showing them that they needn't bother saying it's bugger all to do with them, and I should just pay up regardless. I actually DO intend to pay, because at the end of the day I ordered a service and they provided it. But I also think they should show some sort of goodwill here. I just need to negotiate the best possible "goodwill gesture", so the more I can show how culpable Tiscali have been, the better deal I hope to get.

Of course, if they DO insist I pay the lot, and that's their final word, I have 2 options. Tell them to shove it and stop all contact. (After all, the only address they have for me is my lad's place.) Or report their conduct to Ofcom. I'm favouring the latter, otherwise my lad will have a fight to get a MAC to let him connect with someone else. I'll make a point of cancelling MY Tiscali service too. Maybe they won't care. But I will. And that's what matters.

[Paule]

Re: LB v Tiscali

The fact remains, Tiscali's own code of conduct states that they will make sure that whoever they enter into a contract with, IS authorised to set that contract up.

Personally I dont think this will hold water, as they will argue that your son had allowed you to set up the contract, and to that effect you are therefore authorised.

PKea

[argentarius]

Re: LB v Tiscali

Yes, I was sort of trying to say that LB was effectively setting up the agreement as an authorised agent of his son, but I didn't want to use words which I couldn't support. Thanks PKea for expressing that better for me.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: LB v Tiscali

Aye, ye silver tongued devil ye.

I hear what you are saying. But Did they check? No. Anyhow, it's the fact that THEY didn't request the cash from my account for all that time, and didn't bother asking where the money was that got my goat. They wait all that time, cut him off, then sell the account on without telling me, and THEN apparently recall the account when I phone to complain that has pee'd me off. That, and they then finally send a statement and pretend everything is all right, when at that stage, I'm getting more than a little annoyed with them.

I suppose I had better have a think at what I want out of this. Hmm. I suppose NO default recorded and they give me a MAC, and I'll pay them in dribs and drabs the full amount and no official complaint once he's successfully signed up to another provider. Sounds fair enough to me. But we'll see what they suggest and take it from there.

I think I'll be shopping around for another provider anyhow though. They're no longer offering the best deal around, and customer loyalty obviously counts for feck all.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: LB v Tiscali

Yeah, yeah. You lot were right, and I should never have brought up the bit about being unauthorised to set up the account in the first place. Although that may be something I come back to at a later date.

OK, here's the latest email from them anyhow.

Thank you for your email, I apologise for the delay in receiving a response.

The steps taken to ensure the person entering into the contract is authorised at the point of sale is to ask the customer within the Terms and Conditions of the service they have gained permission for an account to be set up, this is stipulated under section 2.9.3 and 2.9.4.

"2.9.3 you are the Line Rental Account Holder or have obtained all relevant permissions and consents from the Line Rental Account Holder which are necessary to enable you comply with your obligations under these terms and conditions;

2.9.4 you are the current occupier at the Installation Address or, if your postal address is different from the Installation Address, that you have obtained all relevant permissions and consents from the occupier of the Installation Address which are necessary to enable you to comply with your obligations under these terms and conditions;"

By agreeing to the Terms and Conditions you have also agreed to section 7.1.


"7.1 We will invoice you for the Services in line with our Charges, and you agree to pay us the amount you are invoiced in accordance with such Charges. You accept that we consider anyone using the Services at the Installation Address to be authorised by you and that you must pay all Charges due from that use."

As Tiscali has received not any complaints from the line rental holder with the service being set up in your name, Tiscali have to deem you have gained the necessary authorisation for this account to be set up.

Having investigated into why you were not informed of the outstanding balance by our credit control team, I have found when your account was original in arrears in 2006 your account was placed on hold by the billing team, meaning no letters of notifications were to be sent to you, but this was not removed once the debt was paid.

However from review of the account I see it has has been set up to send a paper invoice out every month, so you should have received this notification of the monies due.

As a gesture of good will I have arranged for £100 to be removed from the outstanding balance of £506.20 leaving £406.20 to pay.

My credit control team have advised me they can set up a 10 month (maximum) payment plan to help clear the balance. With the current outstanding balance this would be £40.62 + your monthly invoice. If you agree to this plan your account will be unsuspended.

If you do agree to this plan you will need to call in ever month to make this payment as would not able to collect this via direct debt due to the billing system will want to take the full outstanding balance if activated.

I have attached Tiscali's complaint procedure for you to view. Currently in this procedure you are between stage 5 and 6 with the next step after myself being CISAS.

Please let me know how you would like to proceed.

Kind regards

Richard Hemes

High Level Complaints Executive

tel:+44 (0) 1438 363407
fax:+44 (0) 1438 363880

Tiscali UK Ltd
The Icon, Lytton Way,
Stevenage SG1 1AL

Well, I take issue with them suddenly reactivating the account (but not the service) and billing me since the date of initial disconnection. Which is what they seem to be trying to do. So their "goodwill gesture" of £100 is pretty meaningless.

What they semm to be trying to do is act as if nothing untoward has occurred, and I've been getting billed by paper. Well, for the past couple of months I have. But only AFTER I phoned to find out what was going on, was told the account had been sold to Fredricksons, and was no longer anything to do with them.

So I think I'll be writing back to tell them to stop being silly, otherwise I WILL be involving the CISAS. At least. I think I do need to SAr them as well, and get as much evidence as I can.

But I WILL try to be reasonable. How does this sound.... I accept their £100 GWG, but based on the original amount that was due when they cut off the service. That will take it down to around £370. They will reinstate the service, and no adverse entry on my credit file. Oh, and payable over 24 months.

Otherwise, no payment, and we'll take it to the CISAS and see what they suggest.

What do you reckon?

Oh, aye. Here's their complaints procedure too...

9. Complaints
We aim to give you outstanding service and value for money. However we recognise that from time to time issues can arise that need to be escalated. We are committed to resolving any such issues as quickly and efficiently as possible. The following section gives information on how to contact us, and what to do if you have a complaint.
9.1 Step one - How to Contact Us
If you are unhappy with any of our services, or you feel that you have not received a satisfactory response from our customer service teams, you may send your complaint in writing to:
Tiscali Customer Services
PO BOX 7206
Milton Keynes
MK14 6XG.
You should expect to receive a response to your query within seven working days of us receiving your correspondence.
9.2 Step two - What we will do
On receipt of your complaint our dedicated Team will thoroughly investigate any issues raised and propose a course of action for resolution.
9.3 Step three - If you are not satisfied
If you are not satisfied with the action we plan to take, you should request that your complaint be referred to the Customer Service Manager.
Customer Service Manager
Tiscali Customer Services
PO BOX 7206
Milton Keynes
MK14 6XG.
You should expect to receive a response within seven working days of us receiving your correspondence.
Alternatively you can email our dedicated Complaint Management Team complaints@uk.tiscali.com
9.4 Step Four - If you continue to be unhappy
If you are not satisfied with the course of action proposed by our Customer Service Advisors or Manager to resolve your complaint, you may request that your complaint be referred it to the General Manager at the addresses given above.
You should expect to receive a response within seven working days of us receiving your correspondence.
9.5 Step Five - Further Action in order to resolve your dispute
Once you have a response from our General Manager, if you remain dissatisfied with our attempts to resolve the issue, you can contact CISAS, the Independent Ombudsman.
Please note that CISAS can only help if you have given us an opportunity to resolve any issues.
9.6 Our Complaint Escalation Process

Step 1

Customer Service
Representative

Step 2

Customer Service
Senior Representative

Step 3

Complaint
Management Team

Step 4

Customer Service
Manager

Step 5

General Manager

Step 6

CISAS

[argentarius]

Re: LB v Tiscali

I agree that you should get the £100 GWG off the actual amount due, at the point of disconnection. There's no logical reason for you to have to pay anything between the point of disconnection and the point of reconnection.

But I don't think you deserve 24 months to pay - you should have the money available to pay this right now, as you've been paying nothing for a long time. Giving you 10 months to settle is already generous IMHO.

As to removing credit referencing black data, I'm not convinced that you will succeed although obviously you might as well ask!

[LuggerBugs]

Re: LB v Tiscali

What they have to remember is, if I decide to tell them to go away politely, they don't know where I am . At the moment, I'm being nice, and they'll probably get paid.

I hear what you are saying that I SHOULD have the money to pay immediately. But that would be fine if I know where I am to the penny finance wise. Which I don't. If they money is in the bank, it gets spent. I'm not usually able to get to the end of a month and say, Hang on, where did this extra £17 come from?

Some people might be able to do that. But not me. Not when I'm out of the country more often than not, and have no idea what's coming out and when. I'm just not that well organised.

No, if they want payment, they need to be more generous than that. I just can't afford to be paying £37 odd a month because they're as crap as I am at managing their accounts. It IS their mess after all. Let's not forget that.

They see it as a goodwill gesture. I see it as compensation for their messing me about.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: LB v Tiscali

Now I'm REALLY annoyed. It would seem as if they are doing in the background all the stuff they should have been doing prior to selling the account on last year.

Despite this al being in dispute, and being investigated by new my mate Richard Hemes from the High Level Complaints department, Tiscali have seen fit to pass this on to a debt collection agency. I do actually wonder if Richard knows to be fair. But now all they have done is get my back up.

I think I ned to calm down this weekend so I can get a semi coherent reply off to his last email. But I'm sure I'll manage to get the words Breach, OFT, Guidelines, FSA and FOS in there somewhere.

At the moment I'm tending towards not paying the feckers a penny. I'll see how I feel come Sunday night though. :mad2:

[argentarius]

Re: LB v Tiscali

Hang on, I'm confused!

I though they'd already sold it on to an agency. But that you thought they'd bought it back (effectively) once you got to the dispute stage?

[LuggerBugs]

Re: LB v Tiscali

YOU are confused. HAHAHA

Yes, when I originally found out about all this and phoned to pay it off and get him reconnected, I was told they couldn't because the account had been sold to Fredricksons. When I told them why I was a little peeved about that and I was going to make an official complaint, I mysteriously started to get paper statemements.

So I naturally assumed that as this was now officially in dispute they were trying to cover their tracks and recalled the account. But it seems that whilst the Nice Mr Richard (who seems to struggle with the basics of the English language) is investigating my complaint, their accounts department is now trying desperately to do what it should have been doing nearly two years ago. Except yet again, they have dropped a clanger. What about advising me I'm in arrears and inviting me to rectify the ommision. What about a default letter. ANd so they have now passed the account to a DCA. I'm not even sure which one yet, as I need to pick the letter up from my lad.

They really haven't learned from the first time around, have they? I do think I need to explain to them how they SHOULD be operating.

I've had enough. The time for being reasonable is over, if this is the way they want to play the game.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: LB v Tiscali

OK, I won't bore you with copying the emails that have flitted back and firth, so I'll condense this down. But basically I have negotiated a deal fair to both sides.

I complained to Tiscali about their atrocious behaviour regarding involving a DCA and increasing the amount I owe whilst offering a paltry goodwill gesture meaning they wanted over £400. I suggested they amend their offer today to this...

I pay them £300, over 10 months.
They issue a migration access code this afternoon, call off the DCA and remove all adverse credit markers from my account.

Guess what? MAC in my inbox within a couple of hours, lad is now signed up with BT, and default gone from my credit file!!!!

I've won!!!!! Blimey, THAT was easy.

Mind you, I did have a look at the CISAS site, and looking at some of the compo awarded, it's about what gets awarded in similar circumstances anyway, so they got off without having to pay for an arbitration decision.

It's nice to know negotiation can work. If only others were so pragmatic.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: LB v Tiscali*** WON ***

Thank You!!!!

[enaid]

Re: LB v Tiscali*** WON ***

Nice one Lugger

[argentarius]

Re: LB v Tiscali*** WON ***

Well done, Lugger.