BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

[holdon]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

How much is 9 years work worth?

[wales01man]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

Its worth what you think its worth a Judge may agree or disagree I think you need to consult a Solicitor to find out if you have a chance of winning in court

[FlamingParrot]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

Negligence is negligence, I have not changed anything regarding my complaint of negligence against BT. Something that BT did went terribly wrong here, twice losing my emails and I agree that OE should not have been put on my computer, I can only tell you what my computer told me.
Nobody has heard of email 'melting' after being read but I can assure you that is what happened. I did not expect that BT would abuse my trust either but they did,

A friend of mine reported that, emails she had downloaded to her computer had all vanished and she got a specialist in to look for them and they couldn't find any trace of them, and they were no longer on the mail server either, however, I must say that's the only time I've heard something like that happening in 15 years or so.

how else could I show BT what has happened other than allowing them to share my screen, I would not give any third party any authority 'share' my computer.

Screen sharing allows people to do the same things remotely as what you can do yourself, i.e. install software, etc., the idea is precisely so you can get tech support without a personal visit. :nerd:

[Berniethebolt]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

If 9 years work equate to only 600 emails .....

I must get 600 a day (although I would pay to stop some of them)

[holdon]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

I had not asked for technical support, you had to be there to see what I was going through with BT, they have no customer service and do not read emails neither do they seem to understand what you are saying to them.

The lost emails were very specific and related to the work I had been doing, I can support the loss by reference to my sent emails and the work involved.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

I had not asked for technical support, you had to be there to see what I was going through with BT, they have no customer service and do not read emails neither do they seem to understand what you are saying to them.

The lost emails were very specific and related to the work I had been doing, I can support the loss by reference to my sent emails and the work involved.

Two questions that come to mind would be, can you quantify the loss and can you demonstrate that it was all BT's responsibility? If you are referring to nine years worth of emails, surely you'd have saved some of them locally, backed up anything important to disk/memory stick/cloud, etc.

[holdon]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

The problem is two fold BT and Ombudsman Service Communications, your questions have been answered in this thread. Maladministration of BT and OSC are exacerbating an already bad situation.

[ostell]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

How was there BT maladministration? They had a system problem caused by an outside factor, they tried to help you. Have you read the BT T&C's? Probably not but you will probably find that they state they have no liability.

Normal mode of operation for computers is that anything that is considered vital should be backed up at regular intervals. Did you backup your emails? NO
Did you attempt to recover you emails that had been downloaded to your computer? NO

You have blamed everybody and everything else for the failure instead of looking at what you should have done. Even pleading your age and arthritis hindered matter. I'm a couple of years younger but still the wrong side of 70 and have arthritis. I have no problems with the computer. My oldest client is 92 and she doesn't have any problem with a computer. Indeed she has just upgraded her machine and is now running Windows 10 and all her data, including emails received via Outlook Express, transferred to the new machine and another email program (Thunderbird), together with the address book. She also backs up items that she would not like to lose.

You have created your own problems by not performing backup. The email system is not designed as a backup system. You were lucky to get £100 out of BT.
I don't believe any claim against BT has any merit as you have not taken any actions to mitigate any losses.

Have you asked you computer to search for a file named "inbox"? I thought not. Search in hidden and system folders. Don't have a Win 7 machine to be more precise in instructions. So you are not helping the situation by not attempting to locate and recover the data that you insist was lost.

As I've said before you could download Thunderbird and get that program to import all email data that it finds. Data recovered, end of problem.

[holdon]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

You imply that BT are exempt, the fact is that BT offer unlimited email storage, I also know your view on this. At the time of the change from Yahoo to BT an assurance was given on the BT website that no email would be lost as a result of the change over, this proved to be a false assurance(lie), I spoke to other ISP's who stated that the deleted emails could be reinstated, BT chose to use other methods which exposed the deleted emails to further problems by way of corruption. At the time I was discussing the problem with BT I was told by one of the BT managers that they knew who had caused the problem and did not know how to address the issue "either sack him or retrain him". You were not party to these conversations, with respect I was. and there were many of them as well as email exchanges.
I started this post in order alert people to the fact that the OSC are guilty of maladministration and use false assertions in their processes and also 'lie' as well as fail to honour call backs or respond to emails, either at all or in a timely manner. I also felt it necessary to inform people that BT tell lies during the complaints procedure, alter the content of 'call logs' and misinform the appropriate authorities in order to side step their obligations to their customers under the sale of goods and services and other appropriate legislation in relation to 'due care and diligence'. At no time during either the complaints process dealing with BT and the OSC and in fact my replies in this 'forum' have I been less than truthful in my statements and answers to questions. When you state that I failed to attempt to recover the emails BT installed on my computer you imply that made no attempt at recovery, this is not factual, had you read my replies you would see, as already stated on the 'thread', the emails were corrupted by the attempt at installing them on my computer using a program that was not compatible, no recovery was possible, I could not even print the emails from OE because of the corruption. Do you have a vested interest?, your replies on this thread certainly suggest that you do. I am well aware of my own 'errors' they do not include 'dishonesty'. BT deleted my emails by way of a negligent act not by any outside influences, this is confirmed during the email exchange, the problem was compounded by BT attempting to put the deleted emails into any program other than my webmail, the important word here is 'attempting'.
I have not pleaded my age and arthritis as an excuse merely pointed out that before you criticise you need to know more facts than posted. My reluctance to back up has been explained already in the forum and relates to the value of evidence that could be 'interfered with' in the process, I chose to believe what I was told by BT. If you look at any forum that discusses the customer service offered by BT you will find reference from various complainants to the fact that BT are 'deceptive' during every process, the same is true of the OSC and they display any but 'independence', to save you reading past statements the Independent Assessor found in my favour regarding the maladministration aspect of my complaint against the OSC.

[Berniethebolt]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

Firstly forgive me while I pick myself up off the floor after the shock of learning that a company and a regulator aren't actually on the side of the customer- yes that was a bit of sarcasm

I think what has put peoples backs up is the way you have been throwing words like negligence , maladministration etc.

I do not understand why you did not back up the emails. You say that they could have been interferred with? You could save many 1000's of emails on a memory stick costing less than £5 and you could carry it round on your key ring. They would be far less likely to be interfered with on that than on a BT (or any other) server. It is quite common for us to hear about servers being hacked .

The way you have expressed this I am beginning to wonder if you understand the difference between a mail client such as OE and webmail. Webmail is where your emails are stored on the companies servers and you can access them at any time from any computer pretty much anywhere in the world (unless that country is blocking the access) . A client is just a piece of software that allows you to manage your emails more easily (IMO) . With the client you can either leave a copy on the server or delete them as they are downloaded. As I explained that can cause problems if you have more than 1 computer , well not problems just makes managing them a bit harder. Having one as a 'master' that deletes them upon download doesn't help as if you download them on the master they are no longer available for download onto another computer. Personally I have all my computers set up on IMAP so the messages stay on the servers until I empty my deleted items box -so if I read and delete it on this Mac I can still find it in the deleted items box on my windoze pc.

The problem is that no one can help you because we are not privy to the emails and telephone conversations between you and BT. As it happens I had a screenshare with BT yesterday and before it could happen I had to physically accept the invitation to screenshare , I also had to enter a web address

[holdon]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

Ok, the original post was entered so that I could inform the 'forum users' of a shortfall in expectation of service from the OSC, that is the independent body to arbitrate between a complainant and an ISP. There was found to be no independence, in fact quite the opposite. What has happened here is that attempts have been made to influence the nature of my posting which has, so far, not commented on the subject matter, other than the comment above.
Take it as read, I do understand the distinction between email client and webmail, also the words maladministration (not fit for purpose) and negligence (thoughtless act of another that causes loss or injury). The words have not been used in a flippant manner but there are no other words I can think of to fit.
So far, in my dealings, BT have been found to deviate from the truth as has the OSC. When lies are used, by the ISP, in the 'adjudication' process and are allowed to do so by the ADR who likewise goes on to equally deviate from the truth then there is something wrong with due process and 'justice' can never be dispensed. I am merely attempting to bring this to the attention of ISP users who clearly are so knowledgeable they will never have cause to complain when things go wrong.
BT committed an act of negligence(IMO) by attempting to install Outlook Express onto my computer that operates with Windows 7 therefore Outlook Express is not compatible, this should have been known by BT.
The complaint procedure, as published by BT was not adhered to and therefore(IMO) becomes maladministration.
The procedure adopted by the OSC does not comply with their published procedures and also therefore(IMO) becomes maladministration.
Deviating from the truth by both BT and the OSC becomes clear that they are both(IMO) telling lies to attempt to cover up both negligence and maladministration, if these are the wrong words I would be most interested to hear the words I could/should use in their place. If things change as a result of my complaints then all well and good, if not I wish you all luck and hope you never find yourself in a similar position, the only help I need is from people who have likewise attempted to deal with the BT and OSC procedures.

[Berniethebolt]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

Thank you , we have been duly informed although personally after having had lots of dealings with regulatory bodies concerning debt I am not at all surprised that the lie , lie and lie again. Oh and then when you think you have heard it all, they lie yet again. I would argue slightly with you on your definitions but in essence you are right, to me negligence. In a more legal sense you would need to prove that someone or something had breached their duty of care and caused you a loss, however if we were looking at a compensation claim it can be argued that the victims has contributed to their own loss. In this case I feel that by not having a back up of your emails you have contributed to your loss. I am still not sure why there was no backup but what's done is done.

Maladministration in this case is possibly a bit trickier, in what way did BT breach their own code, did they investigate, did they respond in the time scales required, did they send you a deadlock letter within 8 weeks ?

I will admit I have not had dealings with BT or the ombudsman service although many years ago I did have problems with tiscali and talktalk. I have also had problems with several financial services companies and the fobbing off service . I am currently having problems with the DWP who couldn't tell the truth to save their lives and that includes tribunal judges .

My gut tells me (and my gut is not often wrong) that yes BT cocked up but that you didn't help yourself and may or mayn't have made matters worse but as I was not there I do not know.

I wish you well, and if you take further action I have to believe that justice will prevail otherwise I really will be as cynical as my gut tells me to be

[AndyAndroid]

Re: BT and Ombudsman Serevice-Communications(OSC)

I’ve only just come across this thread and would like to add my support to holdon as I have had similar experiences as holdon with a complaint about BT which the ‘system’ forces you to go through the OSC’s Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) scheme which I found not fit for purpose.

I have now compiled documentary evidence regarding the way the OSC dealt with my case and have presented this to Ofcom.

What concerns me about this thread is the apparent lack of members posting about similar problems that we seem to have experienced. I wish more members would post about any problems they have had with the OSC.

It is only by sharing these and passing on our experiences on to the likes of Ofcom will we bring about any change to way in which the OSC is conducting its ‘business’ and doing such a disservice to consumers in the way then mishandle cases.