Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

[michaelandeleanor]

Hi
In April last year we had a British Gas boiler sales person visit us, as our old boiler was on it's last legs. The salesman told us (and we have it in writing) that we would need a high performance boiler as we have two bathrooms, he then said the 'boiler would be able to power both bathrooms at the same time' (this bit is not in writing)
We went ahead and purchased the all singing / dancing boiler at just over £5k (please don't reply to tell me how much cheaper it would have been elsewhere, I know that now!)
Since the installation (which was very good, quick and tidy) we have had problems with the hot water temperature when the boiler is running, and it will not power two bathrooms at the same time. If you turn a cold tap on when the shower is running the temperature of the mixed shower water is affected, which was not what we were told.
We have complained to BG, they have sent an engineer who confirms the boiler is working as it should, but that it would never be able to power two bathrooms, and that no combi boiler would. BG are not interested in what we feel is the mis-selling of their product (i have emailed several times, but they just concentrate on the boilers performance against spec, not against the sales person)
Does anyone think we have a case based on the above, and if so what is the best way forward.
Many thanks in advance
Michael

[wales01man]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

Don't know if you have a case but why on earth did you buy a combi when you had 2 bathrooms you should have had a non combi and maybe a larger cylinder to store enough hot water what boiler did you have before the new one?

[michaelandeleanor]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

thanks for the retrospective boiler advice, we know we chose poorly

[wales01man]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

Its how you made your choice may be the argument did the salesman say the Combi was more suitable for you?

[des8]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

cf Misrepresentation Act 1967

Section 2

(2) Where a person has entered into a contract after a misrepresentation has been made to him otherwise than fraudulently, and he would be entitled, by reason of the misrepresentation, to rescind the contract, then, if it is claimed, in any proceedings arising out of the contract, that the contract ought to be or has been rescinded, the court or arbitrator may declare the contract subsisting and award damages in lieu of rescission, if of opinion that it would be equitable to do so, having regard to the nature of the misrepresentation and the loss that would be caused by it if the contract were upheld, as well as to the loss that rescission would cause to the other party.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

Don't know if you have a case but why on earth did you buy a combi when you had 2 bathrooms you should have had a non combi and maybe a larger cylinder to store enough hot water

But that would mean the box-wallah would lose commission!

If the sale was linked to a finance agreement, the finance company is jointly liable under s75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. (link)

what boiler did you have before the new one?

I'd guess it was a bog standard, cast iron boiler.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

Its how you made your choice may be the argument did the salesman say the Combi was more suitable for you?

Or did he tell the truth and say that the Combi would get him more by way of commission?

[michaelandeleanor]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

Hi All,
Thanks for the posts.
He did recommend a combi boiler, and the high powered (more expensive) model. On the quote it says 'existing boiler unreliable for hot water, need high performing combination boiler as have two bathrooms'
The old boiler has it's own story, it was the potterton powermax one that made the press as a gas fitter was charged with gross negligence manslaughter for leaving one in an unfit state (2012) it was over 15 years old and was almost impossible to get a service agreement (GNM tends to put people off!) it was also an unusual (revolutionary) design which meant every visit something had to be changed. In short we did need a new boiler, and relied on his help in the selection of a new one. Should have done more research, I know.
No finance, used savings
Will try a formal letter to BG with Des8 info

[enaid]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

Just a bit of info I found on this, it may help when composing your letter as to if these things were done for you or not to justify a combi.


Heating engineers tend to recommend system boilers for houses with 2 bathrooms but under the right circumstances a combi could be perfect.
Before recommending a combi the heating engineeer MUST check the mains water pressure to your property which would determine how much hot water you could get from a combi.
The engineer should also explain that if you are in the shower and someone turns on a tap or the other shower this will reduce the flow of water to first shower & can affect temperature.
If there are just 2 of you in the house and you are not having showers at the same time this should not be a problem.

A combi is NOT suitable if mains water pressure is low.
It will also be slow for running a bath.
It is perfect if you want instant hot water that never runs out.
So you have 5 or 6 people who all want a 20 minute shower, one after the other - no problem with a combi.

If water pressure is good but you do want to work 2 showers at the same time there are some combis which are up to this. I can give you a list.
In general if you want a combi I recommend Worcester bosch or Vaillant as these two are the market leaders. Less well known but also from a majot boiler manufacturer is Rehema Avanta.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

He did recommend a combi boiler, and the high powered (more expensive) model.

Hence more commission.

On the quote it says 'existing boiler unreliable for hot water, need high performing combination boiler as have two bathrooms'

Oh, good. You do have his daft misrepresentation in writing.

The old boiler has its own story, it was the potterton powermax one that made the press as a gas fitter was charged with gross negligence manslaughter for leaving one in an unfit state (2012) it was over 15 years old and was almost impossible to get a service agreement (GNM tends to put people off!) it was also an unusual (revolutionary) design which meant every visit something had to be changed.

That is probably untrue, as service "engineers" almost invariably fib to push up the price of the job.

Will try a formal letter to BG with Des8 info

The "Managing" Director of British Gas is Mr Chris Weston - tel: 01753 494343 - email chris.weston@centrica.co.uk - Twitter https://twitter.com/@BritishGasHelp

[michaelandeleanor]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

Once again many thanks for the help!
Clever Clogs - Thanks for the contact info, Potterton 'problem' here www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18629672
Enaid - useful information thanks,
I'll let you know how I get on.
Michael

[CleverClogs]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

Potterton 'problem' here www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18629672

That could have happened with almost any boiler, given sufficient stupidity or carelessness by the fitter.

[meellis]

Re: Boiler from British Gas mis-sold

The original Powermax was a good idea being a high performance thermal storage type boiler where it heated a large cylinder built into it. There isn't much similar to it on the market at the moment except a Glow worm ultra power. Unfortunately Baxi-potterton aren't the force they used to be and I personally wouldn't fit one to anybody's property, even if I didn't like them. The powermax was a good idea that wasn't well engineered. If you then couple that BG who are now a commercial entity who are about profit compared with the national company that was about quality that made the name and you only end up with problems. A lot of BG engineers are under trained and paid salary and commission so they don't know how to maintain a complex boiler like the powermax and are certainly encouraged to boost their wages with commissions. I believe somewhere in the NHBC guidelines they recommend not fitting combi's to any property with more than one bathroom. It is not necessarily a problem with the pressure of the water, even though it is important, it is more to do with the amount of energy required to heat a flow of water to the required temp. Most good high flow combi's nowadays will give a flow of about 14ltrs a minute at 35 degree rise which means that if the water is coming into the building at 10 degrees then they are only guaranteeing 14litres at 45 degrees so the flow will lower at a higher temperature. A standard shower will run at approximately 11litres a minute. Because the powermax had storage built in it could provide greater hot water than a combi. If you wanted to take your case further you would do well to find in both of the instructions the performance charts and highlight the differences and how a combi would give less performance than your powermax.