BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

[beaconsman]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

Just be aware that VT will affect your credit crating.

[Gazzarn]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

I agree with you @they need the book thrown at them” I was very tempted to offer them 30% of the mileage as I was feeling guilty about it but after reading your thread I’m not going to bother!

Please keep us updated im sure there will be a lot of people waiting to hear the outcome.

[stuckcluckets]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

Hi kurtCrisco,

I’m in exactly the same situation as you with BMW, I’ve copied your letter to the ICO and I’m also going to send it in, so thanks for sharing it with us.

Have you had anymore updates? I know they said ‘months’ for a reply but just wondering if BMW have still been hassling you since you told them the matter is with the ICO?

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Hi Gazzarn, sorry to hear you're in a similar position to me.

Good on you for sending over a letter to the ICO also. BMW Financial Services need the "book thrown at them" so to speak - the more of us that raise official queries with the ICO, the more likely we are to see some results hopefully!

No more updates I'm afraid. I called the ICO around a week or so for an update, and was told that my enquiry was still in a queue waiting to be dealt with. They informed me that the oldest case waiting to be dealt with for BMW Financial Services is from back in September 2017, so they estimated another 4 weeks or so waiting time before I hear anything from them.

With regard to BMW Financial Services, I've not heard anything from them since their last "debt collection" threat letter back in October stating that they would be passing my case to 3rd party debt collectors if they had not received payment from me within 14 days. It's been well over 14 days and I've heard nothing, so watch this space!

[Gazzarn]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

Thanks R0b. I think at this stage I'll wait to see what the ICO come back with. I don't intend to back down.

Hi kurtCrisco,

I’m in exactly the same situation as you with BMW, I’ve copied your letter to the ICO and I’m also going to send it in, so thanks for sharing it with us.

Have you had anymore updates? I know they said ‘months’ for a reply but just wondering if BMW have still been hassling you since you told them the matter is with the ICO?

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[stuckcluckets]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

If it is causing some distress then there is always the option to send a 'without prejudice' letter (which means a court has no right to see the letter and is private between you and BMW) to offer some form of lower settlement (perhaps start at 30%) on the condition that any settlement is (1) made without admission of liability and (2) that BMW undertake to remove all adverse entries reported to credit reference agencies and mark the account as 'settled'.

Or you could continue to stand your ground and see what the ICO comes up with and decide from there.

Thanks R0b. I think at this stage I'll wait to see what the ICO come back with. I don't intend to back down.

[R0b]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

If it is causing some distress then there is always the option to send a 'without prejudice' letter (which means a court has no right to see the letter and is private between you and BMW) to offer some form of lower settlement (perhaps start at 30%) on the condition that any settlement is (1) made without admission of liability and (2) that BMW undertake to remove all adverse entries reported to credit reference agencies and mark the account as 'settled'.

Or you could continue to stand your ground and see what the ICO comes up with and decide from there.

[stuckcluckets]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

It's unlikely they will start knocking at your door rather a third party debt collector may try to send you letters / call you to recover the alleged debt. This is of course the crux of the argument where on the one hand you feel there is no legitimate reason and on the other, BMW feel there is (but they refuse to pursue the matter through the courts). If someone did in fact come to your door then your well within your rights to revoke their right to come onto your property, and claim trespass if they do but maybe that's just getting too far ahead of ourselves and I don't think they would go down this route.

It would be more likely that a bailiff would attend your premises following a judgment against you but BMW would need to issue legal proceedings and win before that could be done.

I wouldn't worry too much just yet about it could just be BMW's debt collection arm or some low level debt collection agency which has no power at all.

Have you inquired with your legal expenses cover to see if they will take it on or at least get some advice?

Thanks R0b, that makes me feel a little more comfortable. Understandably, I've never been in this position before. Before all this my credit rating was near enough perfect. Needless to say, it is worrying, but that's exactly how BMW Financial Services want me to feel, in an attempt to bully me into paying a charge that simply isn't owed. Frankly, it's disgusting.

You've confirmed what I thought was the case, so thank you. I did some additional reading here which clearly explains the legal rights creditors do/do not have when it comes to debt recovery - https://moneyaware.co.uk/2011/08/you...s-actually-do/

I spoke with my home insurance provider, and they confirmed that they offer legal cover for any disputes relating to financial disagreements surrounding the purchase of a motor vehicle. I explained my situation, and they confirmed that I'd be covered - both if BMW Financial Services were to attempt to take legal action against me, and if I chose to take legal action against them.

[R0b]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

It's unlikely they will start knocking at your door rather a third party debt collector may try to send you letters / call you to recover the alleged debt. This is of course the crux of the argument where on the one hand you feel there is no legitimate reason and on the other, BMW feel there is (but they refuse to pursue the matter through the courts). If someone did in fact come to your door then your well within your rights to revoke their right to come onto your property, and claim trespass if they do but maybe that's just getting too far ahead of ourselves and I don't think they would go down this route.

It would be more likely that a bailiff would attend your premises following a judgment against you but BMW would need to issue legal proceedings and win before that could be done.

I wouldn't worry too much just yet about it could just be BMW's debt collection arm or some low level debt collection agency which has no power at all.

Have you inquired with your legal expenses cover to see if they will take it on or at least get some advice?

[stuckcluckets]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

You might want to consider writing to BMW and notifying them that you have made a section 42 request to the ICO (which they have acknowledged and are investigating) concerning BMW unlawfully recording date and/or which is inaccurate and non-compliant with the ICO's Technical Guidance. You could suggest that they cease any further action whilst the investigations are ongoing and until the ICO's investigations have concluded.

As for debt collectors, well they can if they have a legitimate purpose and in this case they feel like they have but the only real way to get rid of that is to take matters to court, though it could amount to harassment if the court finds that BMW has been unlawfully pursuing this or they are in breach of the DPA.

Apologies, I forgot to add that I wrote to BMW Financial Services yesterday in response to the letter from their Recovery department. Exactly as you've just advised, I informed them that I have raised an investigation request with the ICO, providing them with the case number accordingly. I closed my letter strongly urging them to either make the necessary amendments to my credit file in order to avoid legal proceedings. I have legal cover through my home insurance, and if need be I am prepared to take them to court.

I am aware that BMW Financial Services feel they a legitimate reason, but the fact is, they don't legally. Can a debt recovery agency really start sending people round to my door without a CCJ or some sort of court order? Or will they just start sending me threatening letters? Surely this isn't at all legal?

Is this just BMW Financial Services saying "we can't be bothered to chase you anymore, so we'll get someone else to send you letters instead"?

My ex-partner had a credit card with something like £200 owing on it, and this was basically entirely interest. Realistically, she was duped into signing up for some crazy high-interest rate card as she was desperate for it at the time. She maintained she'd been duped, and continually refused to pay. She'd get near enough a letter a week from a 3rd party debt recovery agency demanding that she pays, but never once did they visit her trying to recover assets.

[R0b]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

You might want to consider writing to BMW and notifying them that you have made a section 42 request to the ICO (which they have acknowledged and are investigating) concerning BMW unlawfully recording date and/or which is inaccurate and non-compliant with the ICO's Technical Guidance. You could suggest that they cease any further action whilst the investigations are ongoing and until the ICO's investigations have concluded.

As for debt collectors, well they can if they have a legitimate purpose and in this case they feel like they have but the only real way to get rid of that is to take matters to court, though it could amount to harassment if the court finds that BMW has been unlawfully pursuing this or they are in breach of the DPA.

[stuckcluckets]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

Thank you for the update, it is disappointing that it is possibly going to take a while, however I believe the ICO should notify BMW that you have made a s.42 request. They will of course have their own opportunity to put forward their evidence, or they might see it as a way to back down and remove the markers, who knows.

If a s.42 request fails, then of course legal proceedings will be your last resort.

Keep us updated.

Thanks R0b. Another quick update: I spoke with the ICO yesterday who were able to provide me with a case reference number - excellent. They reminded me of the possible 2 month delay, but I'm prepared for this of course. Conveniently, I also received a letter from the BMW Financial Services Recovery Department yesterday advising me that there are "still balances owed/outstanding on my account" and that if I do not pay within 14 days, they will add interest fees to the total owed and "may" pass my file over to a 3rd party for debt recovery.

I'm assuming that the word "may" is operative here, in that they have absolutely no legal right to pass my file to a 3rd party debt collection agency (as the matter hasn't gone through court, there's no CCJ). That being said, I am still in this position whereby they've left my credit account with them showing as open/unsatisfied. Could the default that they've filed be enough for a 3rd party debt collection agency to legally take action?

[R0b]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

Thank you for the update, it is disappointing that it is possibly going to take a while, however I believe the ICO should notify BMW that you have made a s.42 request. They will of course have their own opportunity to put forward their evidence, or they might see it as a way to back down and remove the markers, who knows.

If a s.42 request fails, then of course legal proceedings will be your last resort.

Keep us updated.

[stuckcluckets]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

Just a quick update. I called the ICO on Monday of this week (23/10/2017) who informed me that they have received my email (containing my letter and associated attachments) and that it will soon be assigned to a case manager. They advised me to call back in a week or so, by which point it should have been assigned and they should be able to provide me with the case reference number.

Unfortunately though, they also informed me that there is a very large volume of cases being handled at present, resulting in the average waiting time being 3 months or more. Bit of a pain, as this means I'm likely to have to wait this length of time before there's any sign of a correction being applied to my credit file, but what can you do.

For anyone who requires it, please see attached a redacted copy of the letter that I sent to the ICO. I amended the template supplied by R0b to suit my situation specifically, so if you intend to use it, I suggest having a good read through it to ensure that the prose is accurate when used to describe your claim. Fill in the areas marked in brackets of course.

[stuckcluckets]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

If the VT letter suggests that liability is terminated and that your liability is zero, you should use that as part of your evidence to the ICO.

I recall sometime last year maybe that a person on here attempted to take on BMW where they reported a default on there, but received a response from their solicitors denying any breach. I think the letter scared that person off and nothing was heard since. If the ICO doesn't work then that may be your only option in order to resolve it.

I have had success with Santander in the past but they filed inaccurate data relating to collection charges. I did issue a claim and within a matter of a week, the issue was settled for £1,300 on the grounds that Santander did not want to incur further expense. Of course your scenario is different but given that they've accepted your VT and marked it on your credit report, that would imply that the agreement is indeed terminated. You might want to take a screenshot or print out your credit report as evidence.

Just written the letter up and sent it over along with a bundle of evidence PDFs. I'll wait to hear back and see what happens! Thanks again for your advice R0b.

[R0b]

Re: BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

If the VT letter suggests that liability is terminated and that your liability is zero, you should use that as part of your evidence to the ICO.

I recall sometime last year maybe that a person on here attempted to take on BMW where they reported a default on there, but received a response from their solicitors denying any breach. I think the letter scared that person off and nothing was heard since. If the ICO doesn't work then that may be your only option in order to resolve it.

I have had success with Santander in the past but they filed inaccurate data relating to collection charges. I did issue a claim and within a matter of a week, the issue was settled for £1,300 on the grounds that Santander did not want to incur further expense. Of course your scenario is different but given that they've accepted your VT and marked it on your credit report, that would imply that the agreement is indeed terminated. You might want to take a screenshot or print out your credit report as evidence.