*** Volkswagen Financial Services - Voluntary Termination mileage U TURN

[tbatterby]

Hi all,

I have been following various threads relating to VT'ing a car on finance on this site for some time. I am currently in an on going battle with Volkswagen Financial Services and would appreciate all the help I can get. To summarise the situation..... I took a VW Golf on finance (PCP) through Lookers VW of Preston. I dealt with a car salesman I had used before and trusted. At the point of agreeing terms he strongly advised me to put the deal on the lowest mileage possible (5000 miles per annum) because "VW don't charge for excess mileage and you can just VT it. That way it keeps down your monthly costs. After asking a number of questions and also being told "when you come to swap it for a new one it wont matter" I went ahead and signed the deal. Some months later I got a new job and my annual mileage jumped from 12,000 per annum to over 20,000. At this point I was obviously concerned and spoke to him directly to which he reassured me that its no problem you can still VT it and that's what most people were doing these days. Fast forward a year or so and I'm now in a position to get a new car. When I went to talk terms they told me that the excess mileage is a big problem. I am informed by them that VW have recently decided to start charging for excess mileage. This decision was taken roughly March 2017. Having read the information on this site I decided to press ahead anyway and voluntarily terminated the contract. Its also worth mentioning I still know the VW salesperson but he no longer works for VW or in fact in the car industry. I feel rather unfairly treated by the fact that someone a month prior to me who may have got the car at the same time or even after me has been able to voluntarily terminate with no charges and yet I am expected to pay because VW suddenly decided to start enforcing it.

I used the template kindly provided on this website to inform them of the voluntary termination. I also included in this letter that I felt I had been miss sold the car due to the information provided by the salesperson at the time in relation to excess mileage charges. As a result of this letter a lady from VWFS called me to discuss the matter. I explained to her on the phone the reasons why I felt I had been miss sold. I also explained that I wasn't trying to get out of paying completely and that I was willing to pay the difference according to being on a 12,000 miles per annum deal which is what I had originally requested. The lady advised that I speak to the dealership directly as they are the people responsible for the alleged miss selling.

I have attached their return letter in light of the CCA references and my dispute towards their enforcement. As you can see from their response they make reference to S99 and the fact that this does not affect liability accrued before the termination.

Some advise/template on how to proceed from here would be much appreciated. They have given me 14 days to pay the outstanding balance.

Thanks in advance

Tom.

[R0b]

Re: *** Volkswagen Financial Services - Voluntary Termination mileage U TURN

Hello,

See this link which I think answers your question when they refer to s.99(2)

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...CP-CCA-S99-(2)

Hopefully you can get your head round that and understand what I've said. Once you have, the lady you spoke to was also incorrect about the mis-selling and speaking to the dealership direct. This is because generally, the position is what as known as a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement i.e. that it is an agreement where the creditor (VW here) has a connection with the supplier of the goods (dealership). As there is a link between the supplier and VW, then it is arguable VW are liable for the actions of the dealership and in particular, the alleged mis-selling.

The FCA has recently announced that it is looking to investigate the way car finance is sold at dealerships and that amongst other things, customers are not getting told all of the information they ought to be or that there may be apparent mis-selling (http://blog.greenflag.com/2017/is-br...lling-scandal/)

You could perhaps write another letter to VW and incorporate the above as well as anything from the link I provided above and politely point that they failed to address your concerns that you were mis-represented the car at the time and for them to confirm their position on that. Also if they wanted to comment further on the subject of the specific word of s.100(1) which does indeed say that your only liable for any sums in respect of the 'total price' immediately before termination which, does not include excess mileage charges.

Happy to look over any draft if you post up.

[tbatterby]

Re: *** Volkswagen Financial Services - Voluntary Termination mileage U TURN

Hi Rob,

Thank you for such a speedy reply and your invaluable advice. I shall formulate a response later today and upload that for you to see. I have also reported the matter to the FCA who will look in to it but have no further involvement once its been reported. Based on the information given they advised me to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service and register a complaint with them to be investigated. Have you any experience of dealing with the FOS?

Thanks

Tom

[R0b]

Re: *** Volkswagen Financial Services - Voluntary Termination mileage U TURN

No worries, I will take a look later today. The FCA is correct, it is the Ombudsman who deals with the complaints but the FCA is the body who oversees financial services in the UK. They will have recorded their complaint you made and no doubt others will have made complaints previously hence the reason why they may be investigating the industry.

I have had experience and my personal view is that they are pretty naff and unless its straight forward issue, they tend not to side with the consumer. For example, any complaints about excess mileage will be found in favour of the lender despite their lack of evidence. The problem you have is that the FOS looks at what is fair and reasonable but if nothing was recorded in writing, it is difficult for them to come to conclusion, it's essentially your word against theirs. Of course if you have witnesses who were there at the time that may help you but I wouldn't say it is guaranteed.

But don't let my personal views put you off, it is your choice and at the end of the day if they don't find in your favour you are not legally bound by it unless you confirm that you accept their decision. That means either party is free to take court action depending on the circumstances.

Lesson to learn: Make sure you get everything in writing, even if you had a phone call follow it up with an email to confirm what was said, even if you get no response from them.

[xs2man]

Re: *** Volkswagen Financial Services - Voluntary Termination mileage U TURN

Make sure you get everything in writing, even if you had a phone call follow it up with an email to confirm what was said, even if you get no response from them.

Look for a call recording app for your mobile, and make sure all conversations go through that. You then can have a copy of every conversation, and replay them and produce a word for word transcript to put in writing.

[tbatterby]

Re: *** Volkswagen Financial Services - Voluntary Termination mileage U TURN

Good evening Rob,

Thanks for the extra tip I shall look in to getting an app to do, although I think I may avoid telephone conversations with them altogether in future.

I have created a response letter using the template you kindly provided and attempted to filter in the extra points raised. I have pasted it below for you to review and be sent off asap.

Thanks again your help really is appreciated.

Tom.


Dear Sir orMadam,

I am writing further to your letter dated 16/05/2017, the contents of which arenoted.

In your letter you mentioned that the reason why I am liable for excess mileageis because section 99(2) of the CCA states that termination of the agreementdoes not affect liability accrued before termination. Whilst I do not disagreewith this statement, it would appear that you are misguided in yourunderstanding of a debtors liability because to understand such liability,section 99 and section 100 must be read together.

For the avoidance of doubt, section 100(1) says the following:

Where a regulatedhire-purchase or regulated conditional sale agreement is terminated undersection 99 the debtor shall be liable, unless the agreement provides for a smallerpayment, or does not provide for any payment, to pay to the creditor theamount (if any) by which one-half of the total price exceeds the aggregate ofthe sums paid and the sums due in respect of the total price immediately beforethe termination.

As you will see from the above, liability following termination is limited tohalf of the total amount payable including any sums relating to the total pricethat became due immediately before the termination of the agreement. Toclarify, 'total price' is defined in section 189 of the CCA as:

the total sum payable by the debtor under a hire-purchase agreementor a conditional sale agreement, including any sum payable on the exercise ofan option to purchase, but excluding any sum payable as a penalty or ascompensation or damages for a breach of the agreement.

Again, the total price specifically excludes any sums owed for breaches of theagreement, penalty charges or compensation. The excess mileage charges you seekare in fact damages for breaching the terms of the agreement. Therefore, theexcess mileage charges do not form part of the total price and as such, fallinto the damages and/or the compensation category, which is effectivelyexcluded for the purposes of calculating the total liability of a debtor wheretermination under section 99 has been invoked.

I also note that you have failed to address the concernsraised in my previous letter regarding the misrepresentation/miss selling ofthe car at the time of purchase and would politely request that you confirmyour position on this matter. I would also politely request that you commentfurther on the subject of the specific wording of s.100(1) which does indeedsay that a person is only liable for any sums in respect of the 'total price'immediately before termination which, does not include excess mileage charges.
Iwould therefore be grateful if you could confirm by return that you accept theabove position and the matter will now be closed. If however, you do not agreewith my interpretation above, please could you provided detailed reasons as towhy the excess mileage charges are recoverable under section 100(1).

I look forward to hearing from you confirming that the matter is now closed.

Yours faithfully,

[R0b]

Re: *** Volkswagen Financial Services - Voluntary Termination mileage U TURN

Looks fine to me, not sure if its the way it has been posted but some words are stuck together you might want to make sure they are spaced out properly on the final letter/email.

[tbatterby]

Re: *** Volkswagen Financial Services - Voluntary Termination mileage U TURN

Update......

VWFS essentially ignored my questions in the letter detailed above. I did report the claim to the Financial Ombudsman and as expected they found in favour of VWFS as the excess mileage charge is stated in the contract (giant waste of time). On the day the FO made their decision, VWFS sent me an outstanding invoice letter stating I had 7 days to pay the balance.

However I do have a final option which I plan to use before considering my options. I had previously purchased a car from the sales rep at VW and after purchasing this car I kept in contact with him personally. I have liaised with him regarding this matter and he has agreed to testify that he instructed me to take out the 5000 miles per annum deal, based on advice given to him by the management team. Given how unusual this is I sought advice from the FO who advised I compose a written letter and ask him to sign with proof of ID. I shall keep you updated with any advances.

[JBirch]

Re: *** Volkswagen Financial Services - Voluntary Termination mileage U TURN

Hi, I'm a new member (also from Preston ironically) and I'm in exactly the same boat as you. Took a PCP deal out with Liverpool VW and only disclosed 5000 miles per year as advised by the Salesman (I requested 15000 per year).

I was hoping to VT my car and avoid the excess mileage charges, so I'm very keen to understand how you resolve this.

Out of interest, when did you take out your finance agreement?

Jon

[joka80]

Re: *** Volkswagen Financial Services - Voluntary Termination mileage U TURN

Hi tbatterby:

I am in a similar situation to you, and looking at your scanned document, it is exactly the same. They sent me a bill for just over £6k for excess mileage charges. They didn't even contact me to do the inspection as the vehicle was located elsewhere and they did it on there own accord and collected it without me knowing! Only until after when VW contacted me to discuss my complaint they sent me a report from BCA so technically not valid correct? What's happened to your case?

- - - Updated - - -

Hello R0b

I have recently voluntary terminated my agreement with VWFS. It had 6 months left to run and terminated. I had paid well over the 50% and after reading lots and lots of threads on Legal Beagles, it has occurred to me that I had nothing else to pay.

I have received a bill for £6159.00 for excess mileage charges and so called damage when there was normal wear and tear!

On another note, before termination, my car had broken down due to the VW software update and was in the dealership for a month and a half whist they were waiting for parts to arrives to carry out repairs. As it was taking ages, I decided to voluntary terminate. As the car was already at VW, I was informed that I would be contacted to go to an inspection. I was never contacted and the inspection went ahead without me being there! I then received the letter of which I am turning to you for help with writing letters to them. What is my position in this?

Any help is kindly appreciated.

Kind regards
George

[JazzJPH]

Re: *** Volkswagen Financial Services - Voluntary Termination mileage U TURN

Update......

VWFS essentially ignored my questions in the letter detailed above. I did report the claim to the Financial Ombudsman and as expected they found in favour of VWFS as the excess mileage charge is stated in the contract (giant waste of time). On the day the FO made their decision, VWFS sent me an outstanding invoice letter stating I had 7 days to pay the balance.

However I do have a final option which I plan to use before considering my options. I had previously purchased a car from the sales rep at VW and after purchasing this car I kept in contact with him personally. I have liaised with him regarding this matter and he has agreed to testify that he instructed me to take out the 5000 miles per annum deal, based on advice given to him by the management team. Given how unusual this is I sought advice from the FO who advised I compose a written letter and ask him to sign with proof of ID. I shall keep you updated with any advances.

What was the outcome?

[darryls]

Likely to go through the exact same scenario in a few months, so would be great to hear how this turned out? or if others have resolved similar scenarios recently.

[NedUk]

Also about to go through this, also advised to take a low mileage agreement.

looking forward to the reply

[Duff1]

My daughter is in the same boat.....signed a contract (as advised) by the dealership for 5000 miles although said she wanted 10.000. Dealership said it wouldn't be a problem, VT the car and excess mileage won't be charged if you have paid over 50%. Have been in a battle with VW ever since. Everytime you send them an ernail, someone new answers each time with different information, it would seem much of it wrong, or so I'm learning. Spoke to the sales person today who sold the car and he said he would email with confirmation that what he said about excess mileage is correct. Still no email.
Speaking (emailing) VW is exasperating. I suppose Ombudsman is next, but n ot reading good results from them. One last thing, my daughter's contract is over 4 years old and states that once you VT a car with over 50% there is nothing else to pay, has the wording changed since then??