Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

[mophead10]

Hi,

I am looking to voluntarily terminate my car finance over the next week with RCI (anyone had any experience?) and over the last few months I have asked how much I have paid to date and the payment due on Monday coming will bring the total paid to just over half.

But the figure includes a £1000 deposit contribution from my dealer when I took on the car; I paid no futher deposit just the monthly payments.

My question is, will that be taken off the total amount paid as I have not paid meaning I have about 3 more months of payments to make or it will it be included by RCI so I have reached over half?

Thanks in advance :tinysmile_grin_t:

[ostell]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

What does the agreement say?

[mophead10]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

What does the agreement say?

Not a great deal.
Especially the section 'Termination: Your Rights'

Under the part for Total Cash Price of Goods it says:
Price: xxxxx
Less cash deposit/part exchange (total advance payments) £1000.

Doesn't really say anywhere who paid it. :s

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

Deposits get deducted from the total price so will be included as part of your payment - take a look at this thread, might help to answer any of your questions

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ry-Termination

[mophead10]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

Thanks

By my calculations it's this month I can terminate.

It was just whether they would argue that I didn't pay the deposit. But my thoughts were I hoped they wouldn't care as they got the initial deposit regardless

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

If you paid the deposit you will have proof of this, if they argue they never received it well then you need to prove that. But deposit count towards the total amount payable.

[mophead10]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

Thanks R0b.

It says deposit paid on the credit agreement. So I'll send my letter and see what is said. I know the dealer paid it as whenever I've rung and asked how much has been paid they always say 'including deposits paid'

Thanks for helping me clear it up in my head.

[mophead10]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

Hello again R0b,

I sent my letter Saturday and received a call from RCI today advising they are happy for continue with the VT but the lady on the phone has said I WILL be charged (pro-rated) for excess mileage and for the collection of the car unless I drop it off, which will only add to the mileage (Manheim - the nearest one is about 55 miles from my home) which is £50; she also pointed out the mileage of the car is taken from when I drop it off so that will only increase how many miles I have done over their pro-rated calculation.

I didn't agree to pay any fees over the phone I just asked for the pack she described so I could read over everything.

I received the pack via email and it says the following:

We must make you aware that the vehicle remains your responsibility until it has been returned/collected. This can only take place after we receive the fully completed return slip. Please be aware that once we have received the return slip, it may take up to two weeks to arrange either the collection or return of your vehicle.

From my understanding in your other posts I do not need to sign anything and they cannot charge me for collection and excess mileage. I have seen your templates, but I just wanted a bit of advice on how to merge 3 letters together; not signing the slip, excess mileage and charge for collection.
This is the slip they have advised me I need to sign, and cannot return the car without doing so:


I am exercising my right to voluntary terminate the above Agreement. I understand how any liability amount will be calculated and the process for returning the car has been fully explained to me. I agree that I will settle any charges for collection of the vehicle (where this option has been ticked below), damage, missing items and/or excess mileage charges as invoiced by you.


The current mileage on the vehicle is – xxx


(please complete this field – failure to complete this may result in the VT process being delayed)


I wish to return my vehicle to the nearest designated site
I wish to have my vehicle collected at a cost of £50.00 (including VAT)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

[MENTION=82183]mophead10[/MENTION]

You are correct in that you are not obliged legally to sign anything including the letter or damage report. If you do then it is more than likely going to be used as evidence that you agreed to such charges - it can still be disputed and defended but obviously more of a struggle if you do.

The Consumer Credit Act does not stipulate on you giving a notice period so in my eyes, the agreement is terminated effective immediately and RCI claiming that the VT process is delayed by refusing to sign it is wrong.

If you want to combine all 3 of the sample letters just simply cut and paste the parts you wish to include. In this case I would certainly include the section about collecting the vehicle within 14 days if not you will intend on cancelling the tax and insurance and notifying DVLA of change of registered keeper. You may also want to include a couple of sentences that there is no legal obligation for you to sign any paperwork other than notify RCI of your intention to terminate, if they believe otherwise then request that they refer to the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act which says that you must sign paperwork and documentation.

Try to keep everything in writing if you can as you will have any evidence if it is required and stand your ground.

[mophead10]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

Thanks R0b for you reply.
I sent the below letter to them (blue) and received the following response (red): (apologies in advance for the length of post and the questions:tinysmile_grin_t


I am writing further to your letter dated 08/03/2016.


I am under no legal obligation to sign any paperwork other than to notify you

(RCI) of my intention to terminate the above agreement. If you believe otherwise

please provide the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which

states I must sign paperwork.


Furthermore, I am under no obligation to pay any fees for the collection of the

vehicle or excess mileage. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that,

my liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and

any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or

indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act. As such, I shall not be paying any

collection or excess mileage fees.


May I remind you that I wrote to you on 07/03/2016 confirming termination of

the agreement, allowing 14 days for you to collect the vehicle. Should you refuse to

collect the vehicle after the 14-day period has expired, I shall therefore cancel

the remaining tax and insurance and return the V5C document to the DVLA

informing them that you are now the registered keeper of the vehicle, and any

subsequent liability shall rest with you.


I would therefore urge you to arrange collection of the vehicle at the earliest

opportunity to avoid any issues with the vehicle. Alternatively, I am happy to

deliver the vehicle to a specific location provided that you confirm in writing to

agree to pay all reasonable fees in doing so.

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Good Afternoon

The Consumer Credit Act gives RCI Financial Services Ltdthe right to receive a pre-determined amount equal to half of the total amount of finance payable. At the time we received your request to voluntary terminate the Agreement, your provisional liability was £0.00, therefore nothing further payable for finance.

Any Final Liability payable will be for the agreed end of contractual charges as stipulated in your signed Agreement and within the terms and conditions, of which you are legally bound to. We have attached a copy of your signed Agreement for your convenience.

In order to ensure that the vehicle return runs smoothly, we refer you to the extract from the British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association “Fair Wear & Tear” Guide within the voluntary termination pack. This details the condition judged to be reasonable when the vehicle is returned at the end of your Agreement. These standards will be applied when deciding if any damage to the vehicle falls within “Fair Wear & Tear”, or is chargeable. We also included a return checklist, which we would recommend that you complete prior to return of the vehicle, and a useful list of Do’s and Don’t’s to help you.

Please ensure that the V5 registration document is available when the vehicle is collected. Failure to provide the V5 will result in an administration charge of £50. If you currently have a cherished plate on your vehicle that you wish to retain, please ensure the transfer is complete by the time the vehicle is due to be collected.

We will offer collection free of charge, as the nearest drop off site is not within reasonable distance. Should this collection be aborted due to the vehicle deemed illegal to drive or our agent is unable to get access to the vehicle, you will incur an abort fee of £168.00. I have requested that Manheim contact you to arrange collection for as soon as possible. You will remain responsible for the vehicle up until collection, if you cancel the insurance before collection you will be liable for any loss.

The agreed annual mileage allowance is 8000 per year, which is pro-rata should the Agreement end early. You have paid 29 rentals on the Agreement, therefore the mileage on return should not exceed 19333 miles. Any excess will be charged at 8p per mile.


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As you can see they have agreed to waive the fee for collection and the car is due to be collected on Monday (21st) just in time for the 14day notice period and they are happy to continue with all this without me signing the return slip (surprise surprise) so that's one positive.

In regards to my mileage; it's at about 21200 so roughly £150 approx (even though during the initial phone call I was quoted that it would be about £88 owed for the mileage.) They don't seem to be budging on the mileage, as you can see above. I have paid about £200 over the 50% amount would it be easier to tell them to use that, or would they want the actual money from myself?

I just need a little advice on how to proceed

Thanks in advance again.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

I'm not sure if RCI are a member of BVRLA or not so you might need to check and verify whether they are or not with their address. The BVRLA is and I quote form the Guidelines "a trade body for companies engaged in the leasing, rental and fleet management of vehicles for corporate and consumer users". Presuming your agreement is not a lease as leases do not usually have the right to VT, then the Guidelines do not apply. The reference to the standard of the Guidelines is intended to be higher than that of a private user of a vehicle as commercial vehicles will be leased on multiple occasions to a variety of customers in a short space of time. In the consumer credit act, the standard is to be of a reasonable condition, which would be a lower standard to that in the Guidelines. S.173 says that an agreement cannot contract out of the act, meaning that in the event of a conflict between a contractual term and the consumer credit act, the act shall prevail.

Secondly, the definition of the "total sum" excludes any damages or compensation for breach of the agreement. As the excess mileage is a breach of the agreement, RCI cannot claim for this as you have VT'd in accordance with s.99 and s.100 of the act. You could also say as you point out, you have paid circa £200 over and above the 50% mark and any additional payments would cover the cost of the excess mileage. They might turn around and say that the excess mileage puts the vehicle in an unreasonable conditon, but then oyu argue that given the small difference in mileage, it is negligible and if they should provide you concrete evidence otherwise.

If you want to have a stab at writing something and post up I can take a look. Take a look post number 12 on this thread for a bit of guidance on the BVRLA response although you will need to tailor it slightly.

[mophead10]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

Thanks for your quick reply R0b.

Just a quick query before I write something up, just looking over my agreement again re. excess mileage and it says the below in the agreement, does this mean due to the part of 'ending the agreement early' they covered themselves regarding getting paid for that or am I still covered by CCA? Also they are a member of BVRLA according to the latest doc.

Excess Mileage pence per mite (inc VAT)

Excess Mileage Charge : 8
Annual Mileage Allowance : 8000 miles
You must not exceed the Annual Mileage Allowance. For each mile driven in excess of the Annual Mileage Allowance, you will be required to pay the Excess Mileage Charge. This will be charged on expiry, or the earlier ending of this agreement, or where you request us to act as your agent to sell the Goods.

Also I'm good to hand the car over on Monday and continue arguing regarding this aren't I?

Thanks

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

The term itself would be applicable if lets say you fulfilled the agreement to the end, then the excess mileage is something they could enforce as s.99/100 would not apply because you did not VT. Because you VT'd your liability is explicitly restricted even where there is a breach of any contractual terms.

“total price ” means the total sum payable by the debtor under a hire-purchase agreement or a conditional sale agreement, including any sum payable on the exercise of an option to purchase, but excluding any sum payable as a penalty or as compensation or damages for a breach of the agreement;

[tommylad]

Re: Voluntary Termination - Deposit Contribution from the Dealer.

Hi mophead10, just wondering as I am about to the same thing with my Renault Clio. How did it go in the end? What did you have to pay to RCI when you handed the car back? Did your letters work when getting in touch with them? The woman on the phone told me that I would be better off handling this on the phone but obviously nothing is recorded then and puts me in a poor position legally.

Thanks